Every horrible thing you ever heard about the health insurance industry is true

[charliebrown]

Re: Every horrible thing you ever heard about the health insurance industry is true

ok, here is a crazy idea.

Lets spend 100B as seed money to start a gvt health insurance company. It will be used to buy the office space, computers, pencils, etc, everything needed to start it up, then just like any other ins. company the people's premiums will provide operating income. If all the hoopla about how evil the profit of insurance comany's is true, and how electronic records etc are going to save us all of this money ... then this company will be highly successful. Have it chartered as a 501 3c charity, and hell people will probably even contribute a charitable contribution to it. They would be buying health care for the poor, really sick etc. If it was well run I would certainly consider making a contribution.

[flintlock]

Re: Every horrible thing you ever heard about the health insurance industry is true

My take on it all is this. Even the die hard "keep your hands off our health care" crowd will be singing a different tune in a few more years when their company switches them to a high deductible policy( just like the man in the video says is happening), lowers coverage, increases their share of the costs, or when they or a family member actually gets a serious illness and they find out its not covered.

A lot of this is about not wanting to let government run anything. I can understand that. But a lot of it is also the " I'm on the lifeboat, you can pull up the ladder now" phenomena. Those who are sitting pretty( they think) with good coverage their employer is paying, or they have never been sick, are perfectly willing to sit back and let their fellow Americans be bankrupted or die. A lot of these "hands off" types apparently think that if they just stay the course, that all these problems will go away, and health care costs will level off or even drop on their own. That the angry unwashed will just sit idly by while they get sick and die, and not ever need nor ask for government assistance again. Wake up people. That attitude is exactly what brought you Obama. We either address this issue now or it will be rammed down our throats, and it won't be pretty.

Quite a few of the "hands off" types are a layoff away from getting a serious dose of reality when they find out no insurance company wants to cover their middle aged asses. Even if they do, they should know they could easily be paying more than their mortgage for a policy with more holes than Swiss cheese.

I also fear what the Democrats may come up with. But dammit, eight years of George Bush and not a mention of any reform. Just the ostrich sticking its head in the ground.

[WDCRob]

Re: Every horrible thing you ever heard about the health insurance industry is true

What is amazing to me is that we are only questioning the Wall Street Model as it has impacted health care. It is doing this to everything it touches. If you want to save capitalism and free markets somebody better come up with something new in a hurry. "Socialism" is an effect not a cause.

Why is this so hard to understand?

No eight year olds losing fingers in manufacturing plants, no 12 year olds with Black Lung, no company stores in company towns that accept only company scrip - no unions.

No rivers on fire, no soot-covered downtowns, no Love Canals - no EPA.

No rotten meat, no cat guts sold as beef steak - no FDA.

No tax money to oligarchs making more in bonuses during a financial crisis than their companies made in profits - no revolutions.

All the things Conservatives love to hate result from the times when the world was run as they wanted it to be. Times when the average person was being FUCKED. The parts of government they don't like were a reaction to their own (mostly wealthy business) excesses.

Don't want bigger government, resurgent unions, new regulatory institutions and health care reform? Stop screwing people. It's really not very complicated.

[metalman]

Re: Every horrible thing you ever heard about the health insurance industry is true

Why is this so hard to understand?

No eight year olds losing fingers in manufacturing plants, no 12 year olds with Black Lung, no company stores in company towns that accept only company scrip - no unions.

No rivers on fire, no soot-covered downtowns, no Love Canals - no EPA.

No rotten meat, no cat guts sold as beef steak - no FDA.

No tax money to oligarchs making more in bonuses during a financial crisis than their companies made in profits - no revolutions.

All the things Conservatives love to hate result from the times when the world was run as they wanted it to be. Times when the average person was being FUCKED. The parts of government they don't like were a reaction to their own (mostly wealthy business) excesses.

Don't want bigger government, resurgent unions, new regulatory institutions and health care reform? Stop screwing people. It's really not very complicated.

[leegs]

Re: Every horrible thing you ever heard about the health insurance industry is true

My take on it all is this. Even the die hard "keep your hands off our health care" crowd will be singing a different tune in a few more years when their company switches them to a high deductible policy( just like the man in the video says is happening), lowers coverage, increases their share of the costs, or when they or a family member actually gets a serious illness and they find out its not covered.

A lot of this is about not wanting to let government run anything. I can understand that. But a lot of it is also the " I'm on the lifeboat, you can pull up the ladder now" phenomena. Those who are sitting pretty( they think) with good coverage their employer is paying, or they have never been sick, are perfectly willing to sit back and let their fellow Americans be bankrupted or die. A lot of these "hands off" types apparently think that if they just stay the course, that all these problems will go away, and health care costs will level off or even drop on their own. That the angry unwashed will just sit idly by while they get sick and die, and not ever need nor ask for government assistance again. Wake up people. That attitude is exactly what brought you Obama. We either address this issue now or it will be rammed down our throats, and it won't be pretty.

Quite a few of the "hands off" types are a layoff away from getting a serious dose of reality when they find out no insurance company wants to cover their middle aged asses. Even if they do, they should know they could easily be paying more than their mortgage for a policy with more holes than Swiss cheese.

I also fear what the Democrats may come up with. But dammit, eight years of George Bush and not a mention of any reform. Just the ostrich sticking its head in the ground.

I think that you have described the reality of the situation absolutely perfectly.

[grapejelly]

Re: Every horrible thing you ever heard about the health insurance industry is true

this is all stupid. The insurance industry is heavily regulated. Each state mandates all kinds of silly coverages and restricts the consumers freedom of choice.

The government is heavy into health care and makes it much worse. Just compare the COSTS of veterinary medicine with the COSTS of equivalent "people" medicine. Like 1/20th the cost. The differential is a little about greater care for people, but mostly about higher regulatory burdens on human medicine.

Everything about healthcare right now is screwed up because of government.

People should have their own policies and not have it through their employer. Insurance companies should be free to offer whatever they want so people can pick and choose. Just for starters.

If people can't get insurance, there can be a pooled risk policy the way auto insurance pooled risks work on the state level for difficult to insure drivers. None of this is rocket science.

The big problem with medicine today is nobody knows or cares what it costs when it is being delivered.

A true free market involves a consumer and a producer negotiating price. In the health market there is rarely such thing.

[0tr]

Re: Every horrible thing you ever heard about the health insurance industry is true

Don't want bigger government, resurgent unions, new regulatory institutions and health care reform? Stop screwing people. It's really not very complicated.

Great comments. Unfortunately, (some) people are cannibals. Figuratively &/or literally.

[0tr]

Re: Every horrible thing you ever heard about the health insurance industry is true

I had to go to an emergency room. $700 to $1k just for getting foot in door.

Whoops that did not come out quite right. $700 to $1k for admittance.

an ounce of gold for a few stitches? Something is very wrong here.

[cjppjc]

Re: Every horrible thing you ever heard about the health insurance industry is true

I had to go to an emergency room. $700 to $1k just for getting foot in door.

Whoops that did not come out quite right. $700 to $1k for admittance.

an ounce of gold for a few stitches? Something is very wrong here.

I spent about 1 hour in an emergency room recently. Doctor and hospital bill totaled less than $700. I though about how here alot of people think it's okay to skip out our your mortgage or credit card debt. So I haven't paid the bill.:p and I probably wont.

[jk]

Re: Every horrible thing you ever heard about the health insurance industry is true

I had to go to an emergency room. $700 to $1k just for getting foot in door.

Whoops that did not come out quite right. $700 to $1k for admittance.

an ounce of gold for a few stitches? Something is very wrong here.

if you think that's a ripoff you should go into the e.r. business and make a killing. it's expensive to run an e.r. try it. sit down and think through the costs, the facilities, the staffing, the supplies, the equipment, the maintenance, the insurance, the disposal of biological wastes. think it through. and if you think you can do it cheaper, go for it.

[jk]

Re: Every horrible thing you ever heard about the health insurance industry is true

I spent about 1 hour in an emergency room recently. Doctor and hospital bill totaled less than $700. I though about how here alot of people think it's okay to skip out our your mortgage or credit card debt. So I haven't paid the bill.:p and I probably wont.

see my post immediately above. i suppose there's no point in discussing your responsibility in accepting services, and your choice to indulge in theft of service. so i just hope they sue your ass. or at least send you out to collection and destroy your credit rating. or maybe better yet, they close that e.r. because of too many leeches like you, so next time you either have to drive an hour to get care or risk going into sepsis. bottom line- if you don't want to pay the price, decline the service. i have no respect for theft.

[cjppjc]

Re: Every horrible thing you ever heard about the health insurance industry is true

see my post immediately above. i suppose there's no point in discussing your responsibility in accepting services, and your choice to indulge in theft of service. so i just hope they sue your ass. or at least send you out to collection and destroy your credit rating. or maybe better yet, they close that e.r. because of too many leeches like you, so next time you either have to drive an hour to get care or risk going into sepsis. bottom line- if you don't want to pay the price, decline the service.

If you hold the same hostility to those that can pay their mortgage and choose not to. If you hold the same hostility to those who choose to not pay the debt they ran up on thier credit cards, then I can except your judgement.

If not. No words I can use can adequately describe how little I think of your "opinion."

[jk]

Re: Every horrible thing you ever heard about the health insurance industry is true

If you hold the same hostility to those that can pay their mortgage and choose not to. If you hold the same hostility to those who choose to not pay the debt they ran up on thier credit cards, then I can except your judgement.

If not. No words I can use can adequately describe how little I think of your "opinion."

a mortgage is a note with specified collateral, entered into by both parties with eyes wide open. if the borrower chooses to forfeit the collateral under the conditions specified in the note, that was part of the original contract. for those who do not pay their credit card debt because they go through bankruptcy, that again is under a procedure as specified by law. if you are in the process of filing for bankruptcy, my condolences and my apologies. otherwise, i stand by my comments: you are posting a smiley to celebrate your intent to steal.

[cjppjc]

Re: Every horrible thing you ever heard about the health insurance industry is true

a mortgage is a note with specified collateral, entered into by both parties with eyes wide open. if the borrower chooses to forfeit the collateral under the conditions specified in the note, that was part of the original contract. for those who do not pay their credit card debt because they go through bankruptcy, that again is under a procedure as specified by law. if you are in the process of filing for bankruptcy, my condolences and my apologies. otherwise, i stand by my comments: you are posting a smiley to celebrate your intent to steal.

Words. Words that differentiate according to the way you see things. Is what I'm saying really any different than the person who can pay his mortgage but chooses not to because of the lost equity. Many, many, many, here say that person is a chump for not walking. Or the recent thread regarding people walking away on their credit card debt. I didn't see many on here objecting to this. I know the big bad bankers take advantage.

As you finally state intent is all that matters. If I give my word by implication. Shouldn't I keep my word?

[jk]

Re: Every horrible thing you ever heard about the health insurance industry is true

Words. Words that differentiate according to the way you see things. Is what I'm saying really any different than the person who can pay his mortgage but chooses not to because of the lost equity. Many, many, many, here say that person is a chump for not walking. Or the recent thread regarding people walking away on their credit card debt. I didn't see many on here objecting to this. I know the big bad bankers take advantage.

As you finally state intent is all that matters. If I give my word by implication. Shouldn't I keep my word?

people don't walk away from credit card debt except via bankruptcy. if you wish to absolve yourself of your debts in similar fashion, the law provides such an avenue. what you celebrate with your smiley [""] is theft of service. dance around it if you wish. you hope that the hospital's collection procedures are inadequate, i.e. that you can "get away with something." i hope the opposite. you wish to succeed in a form of parasitism. if you and similar others succeed, you just drive up costs for those who pay their bills. congrats.