Forget the Great In Britain

[Diarmuid]

Re: Forget the Great In Britain

And more recently, New Labour stacked the government with Scots - far out of proportion to their percentage in the population (Scotland only has 4 million people). Also, considering its small population, Scotland is massively overepresented in Parliament.

Taxed to death - interesting peice on tax policies in the uk and life spans differences between the north and south of the country.

In my view has some relevance to the article and another view on the notion of Scotland (equally applicable to the north of England) benefiting from current tax redistribution policies in the UK.

[MEDIA][/MEDIA]

[hayekvindicated]

Re: Forget the Great In Britain

Taxed to death - interesting peice on tax policies in the uk and life spans differences between the north and south of the country.

In my view has some relevance to the article and another view on the notion of Scotland (equally applicable to the north of England) benefiting from current tax redistribution policies in the UK.

I am willing to wager a sizeable sum of money that none of those appalling stats relating to Glasgow would improve even if Scotland became independent.

Also its a bit rich (no pun intended) to compare Glasgow with Chelsea (the richest borough not just in the UK but probably the world). Why not compare Edinburgh (which is very middle class) with Tower Hamlets in London (which is one of the poorest boroughs in the UK)? Because the moment you do that, the thesis doesn't hold. Ergo, to prove the point, the Renegade Economist has to pick his data sets accordingly.

Those stats also do not reflect in-country migration. The vast majority of highly paid professionals in London were not born in London. The London financial firms (where pay has traditionally been higher than anywhere else in the UK) have people from all over Britain working in them. I have worked with large numbers of Northerners and Scots in the City of London. I can assure you, their stats are far better than for those who stay back in Glasgow - even though many of them actually grew up in the north or in Scotland. Therefore, to say that anyone born in Glasgow winds up with worse stats than anyone in London is really not true - strictly speaking. What really happens is that the smartest people from all over the UK wind up in London because London has traditionally had the best paying jobs (as is, I am fairly certain, the case with NYC in the US). This may not be the case a decade from now as the finance industry dies a slow death - regional disparities may reduce dramatically as a result.

As for Glasgow, there are some sections of Glasgow where life expectancy is lower than in Bangladesh - even though Bangladesh also has a system of taxation built on taxing income rather than property prices.

[rj1]

Re: Forget the Great In Britain

Thanks for the laugh...

William of Normandy would probably think things were just returning to their rightful historical norm...with the French resuming control...

Isn't that what the whole point of the European Union is?

[rj1]

Re: Forget the Great In Britain

I am willing to wager a sizeable sum of money that none of those appalling stats relating to Glasgow would not improve even if Scotland became independent.

Perhaps, but then they would have no one left to blame and would be forced to confront and fix the problem. At the end of the day in such a system, the welfare of the country of Scotland would be entirely decided on by Scots. It's a bit like Africa really. Everything wrong was blamed on colonialism. Well, colonialism is done now. From this point forward, everything that goes wrong is their own fault (Mugabe in Zimbabwe, Mbeki and Zuma in South Africa, the general decline in living conditions in both countries, countless dictators and strife).

I personally have always been of the opinion that societies that wish to secede should. If others don't like it, they can grow a pair of balls and pick up their guns and try to force said society one way or another.

[rj1]

Re: Forget the Great In Britain

But face facts. Much of the west needs a financial, political and social reboot in order to compete with the emerging world. No free lunch. The goodtimes from winning a couple of wars is over. We have to compete. We need to accept an enevitable lower standard of living or start producing.

I'm just a bit annoyed with your statement, but before I respond, I want to know what you do and where.

[0tr]

Re: Forget the Great In Britain

Secessionists seem to draw strength from three things:

• Endless retelling of the historical grievances and wrongs done to their people;
• Dreaming about the utopian possibilities of secession;
• Using the constant threat of secession as leverage to make political gains.

The reality of secession is another thing entirely...a messy, costly, risky affair. As long as there is more to be gained from broadcasting the grievances, imagining the [unachievable] perfect separatist world, and extracting more political concessions, secession will never happen...just ask any hard-core Québécois secession advocate.
...

Quebec will never leave. Just try to push them out. Pensions and health care. Ontario and the resource rich western provinces pay everything.

If Quebec actually ever got itself together to secede, or were to be pushed out, there would be a mass exodus. And not just of Anglophones.

I suspect a similar situation applies to Scotland. Pensions and health care.

[GRG55]

Re: Forget the Great In Britain

Perhaps, but then they would have no one left to blame and would be forced to confront and fix the problem. At the end of the day in such a system, the welfare of the country of Scotland would be entirely decided on by Scots. It's a bit like Africa really. Everything wrong was blamed on colonialism. Well, colonialism is done now. From this point forward, everything that goes wrong is their own fault (Mugabe in Zimbabwe, Mbeki and Zuma in South Africa, the general decline in living conditions in both countries, countless dictators and strife).

I personally have always been of the opinion that societies that wish to secede should. If others don't like it, they can grow a pair of balls and pick up their guns and try to force said society one way or another.

So how do you define a "society" in this context?

[Chris Coles]

Re: Forget the Great In Britain

Isn't that what the whole point of the European Union is?

NO! Absolutely not. You have not understood the underlying reason for the formation of the European Community. Prevention of conflict and war.

War has decimated the European continent for centuries. The European Community was formed to stop the friction between Germany and France. By creating a community, where the young in particular were encouraged to travel and learn to understand the different cultures, with the aiming point to eliminate that international friction.

The European Community has been a great success. Yes, there are problems. But they will be overcome. Until you take in the true reason for the formation of Europe as it exists today, you are not going to be able to understand why it is going to be a very great economic success in the future.

[goadam1]

Re: Forget the Great In Britain

I'm just a bit annoyed with your statement, but before I respond, I want to know what you do and where.

Are you going to hunt me down? What was so annoying about my statement? Is it personal somehow. Hasn't debt deflation, lack of productive industry and capital inflow problems not been discussed as lowering standards of living. It's not happening?

Your tone is nasty.

[goadam1]

Re: Forget the Great In Britain

I'm just a bit annoyed with your statement, but before I respond, I want to know what you do and where.

I run a call center in India.