Forget the Great In Britain

[FRED]

Forget the Great In Britain
August 1, 2009 (Newsweek)

Its fall was inevitable, but the economic crisis will shrink the last pretenses of empire faster than anyone expected.

Even in the decades after it lost its empire, Britain strode the world like a pocket superpower. Its economic strength and cultural heft, its nuclear-backed military might, its extraordinary relationship with America—all these things helped this small island nation to punch well above its weight class. Now all that is changing as the bills come due on Britain's role in last year's financial meltdown, the rescue of the banks, and the ensuing recession. Suddenly, the sun that once never set on the British Empire is casting long shadows over what's left of Britain's imperial ambitions, and the country is having to rethink its role in the world—perhaps as Little Britain, certainly as a lesser Britain.

This is a watershed moment for the United Kingdom. The country's public debt is soaring, possibly doubling to a record high of 100 percent of GDP over the next five years, according to the International Monetary Fund. The National Institute for Economic and Social Research forecasts that it will take six years for per capita income to reach early-2008 levels again. The effects will cascade across government. Budgets will be slashed at the Ministry of Defense and the Foreign and Commonwealth Office, affecting Britain's ability to project power, hard and soft. And there's little that can be done to reverse the trend, either by Prime Minister Gordon Brown or by the incoming government of David Cameron's Conservatives, assuming they win a general election that must be held within the next 10 months. As William Hague, Cameron's deputy and shadow foreign secretary, said in a recent speech: "It will become more difficult over time for Britain to exert on world affairs the influence which we are used to." more...

AntiSpin: We forecast that real per capita income in the UK will not reach early 2008 levels for 20 years or more.

[Ghent12]

Re: Forget the Great In Britain

AntiSpin: We forecast that real per capita income in the UK will reach early 2008 levels for 20 years or more.

Confusing preposition. I assume you mean the forecast is that the income will not reach early 2008 levels for 20 years or more?

[hayekvindicated]

Re: Forget the Great In Britain

The bubble in the financial economy masked the decline - signs of which were visible everywhere. I remember coming to the UK as a college grad from India and being amazed at the incompetence that was commonplace.

Once famed for the quality of its engineers, British goods became of such shoddy quality that it was embarrassing (or ought to have been) for the country. However, the booming financial services economy gave a platform to Lilliputians like Blair and Brown to go swaggering to international forums and lecture the world on everything under the sun - global warming, race relations, economics, health care, education, multiculturalism (or any other passing fad that had the ivory tower academics agog with excitement).

But behind the facade of power was a rotting country in which things were falling apart. The health care system, the schools, educational standards, law and order, border controls etc etc. This crisis is Britain's moment of truth. Not only is it finished as a serious power, it needs to weed out leaders who are too concerned about "saving the world". It needs a new generation of leaders who are willing to face up to the real problems facing the country - particularly the spectacular pace of social breakdown that is wrecking its towns and cities. Somehow I don't think we will see that happen. We will see one set of show boaters replaced by another set of show boaters.

On a side note, the Newsweek article is mostly garbage.

[Chris Coles]

Re: Forget the Great In Britain

Forget the Great In Britain
August 1, 2009 (Newsweek)

Its fall was inevitable, but the economic crisis will shrink the last pretenses of empire faster than anyone expected.

Even in the decades after it lost its empire, Britain strode the world like a pocket superpower. Its economic strength and cultural heft, its nuclear-backed military might, its extraordinary relationship with America—all these things helped this small island nation to punch well above its weight class. Now all that is changing as the bills come due on Britain's role in last year's financial meltdown, the rescue of the banks, and the ensuing recession. Suddenly, the sun that once never set on the British Empire is casting long shadows over what's left of Britain's imperial ambitions, and the country is having to rethink its role in the world—perhaps as Little Britain, certainly as a lesser Britain.

This is a watershed moment for the United Kingdom. The country's public debt is soaring, possibly doubling to a record high of 100 percent of GDP over the next five years, according to the International Monetary Fund. The National Institute for Economic and Social Research forecasts that it will take six years for per capita income to reach early-2008 levels again. The effects will cascade across government. Budgets will be slashed at the Ministry of Defense and the Foreign and Commonwealth Office, affecting Britain's ability to project power, hard and soft. And there's little that can be done to reverse the trend, either by Prime Minister Gordon Brown or by the incoming government of David Cameron's Conservatives, assuming they win a general election that must be held within the next 10 months. As William Hague, Cameron's deputy and shadow foreign secretary, said in a recent speech: "It will become more difficult over time for Britain to exert on world affairs the influence which we are used to." more...

AntiSpin: We forecast that real per capita income in the UK will reach early 2008 levels for 20 years or more.

The great test of the United Kingdom has at long last arrived. We are an island nation, and have long prospered. It is only recently that we have made grand mistakes by giving up our traditional maritime mercantile successes for a handful of "dodgy" silver from the bankers.

The decline of the Foreign and Commonwealth Office, (FCO), has been going on, first intellectually from the end of WW2 with the loss of the revenues and associated social status from the likes of India, and now more recently from stretching out to grasp the coat tails of the US inspired military adventures. No nation in decline can afford a department that flaunts its high life superiority and reckless indifference to the desperate social divide beneath it. We got fed up to the back teeth with compelling reports of their wonderful superior social lives at our expense. No single individual has forced this decline, it is an example of how indifference brings, in the end, its own reward. We simply cannot afford them any more; they will have to pull up their socks and re-learn how to lead a nation.

Fred, you are going to be confounded by our ability to respond to the changes brought by our close association to present failures. This fine group of nations, The United Kingdom, has overspent recently, yes; but the lessons have now been learned and I counsel you not to give too much importance to our past leaders who say we have lost our way. When the chips are down, this nation comes alive with innovation and determination not to be defeated.

We will overcome and prosper.

[Mega]

Re: Forget the Great In Britain

My Cup runth over

Mike

[Mega]

Re: Forget the Great In Britain

I watched what can only be described as madness over the last 5-10 years. A total focus on "The City" & a total lack of focus on manufactoring.

We are now "Blessed" with a econermy that no balance, thus a MEGA crash is due shorty.

But, as an Englishman (With overseas investments/Gold/Silver) i find myself wearing a rye smile these days. The arseholes whom SPENT,SPENT, SPENT.........Because they were allowed a level of debt credit that would worry a 3rd World dictor are suddenly looking around with a " Wot happened" look in their faces.

Seems that running a BMW, Merc & Supercharged Range rover is .....like a bit of a problem (Snigger).

I shall be writting more on this subject soon.
Mike

[Mega]

Re: Forget the Great In Britain

Ah............Right on time:-
http://business.timesonline.co.uk/to...cle6736308.ece
Mike

[c1ue]

Re: Forget the Great In Britain

So what are the odds that Scotland decides to secede? When faced with the position of Germany in the EU?

[hayekvindicated]

Re: Forget the Great In Britain

So what are the odds that Scotland decides to secede? When faced with the position of Germany in the EU?

Bwahahahaha.

I hope you don't get offended by this if you're a Scot, but Scotland would be a third world country if it didn't receive massive amounts of taxpayer money from Westminster.

Also, the "leaders" that created this mess for Britain were mostly (though not entirely) Scots - Blair, Brown and the bankers running RBS and HBOS.

Scotland's position in the UK is the OPPOSITE of Germany's in the EU, i.e. while the UK could survive without Scotland, the EU won't survive without Germany.

[goadam1]

Re: Forget the Great In Britain

Wow. Your response could have been written by Winston himself. Stiff upper lip and all. You are right; predictions mean nothing. You can extrapolate from the present.

But face facts. Much of the west needs a financial, political and social reboot in order to compete with the emerging world. No free lunch. The goodtimes from winning a couple of wars is over. We have to compete. We need to accept an enevitable lower standard of living or start producing.

Sofa sufing is over.

The great test of the United Kingdom has at long last arrived. We are an island nation, and have long prospered. It is only recently that we have made grand mistakes by giving up our traditional maritime mercantile successes for a handful of "dodgy" silver from the bankers.

The decline of the Foreign and Commonwealth Office, (FCO), has been going on, first intellectually from the end of WW2 with the loss of the revenues and associated social status from the likes of India, and now more recently from stretching out to grasp the coat tails of the US inspired military adventures. No nation in decline can afford a department that flaunts its high life superiority and reckless indifference to the desperate social divide beneath it. We got fed up to the back teeth with compelling reports of their wonderful superior social lives at our expense. No single individual has forced this decline, it is an example of how indifference brings, in the end, its own reward. We simply cannot afford them any more; they will have to pull up their socks and re-learn how to lead a nation.

Fred, you are going to be confounded by our ability to respond to the changes brought by our close association to present failures. This fine group of nations, The United Kingdom, has overspent recently, yes; but the lessons have now been learned and I counsel you not to give too much importance to our past leaders who say we have lost our way. When the chips are down, this nation comes alive with innovation and determination not to be defeated.

We will overcome and prosper.

[goadam1]

Re: Forget the Great In Britain

I love racism I can't understand. "shortsighted Scotsmen" is funny. Did python ever do a a bit like that. William Wallace, you will never have your day!

Bwahahahaha.

I hope you don't get offended by this if you're a Scot, but Scotland would be a third world country if it didn't receive massive amounts of taxpayer money from Westminster.

Also, the "leaders" that created this mess for Britain were mostly (though not entirely) Scots - Blair, Brown and the bankers running RBS and HBOS.

Scotland's position in the UK is the OPPOSITE of Germany's in the EU, i.e. while the UK could survive without Scotland, the EU won't survive without Germany.

[GRG55]

Re: Forget the Great In Britain

So what are the odds that Scotland decides to secede? When faced with the position of Germany in the EU?

Secessionists seem to draw strength from three things:

• Endless retelling of the historical grievances and wrongs done to their people;
• Dreaming about the utopian possibilities of secession;
• Using the constant threat of secession as leverage to make political gains.

The reality of secession is another thing entirely...a messy, costly, risky affair. As long as there is more to be gained from broadcasting the grievances, imagining the [unachievable] perfect separatist world, and extracting more political concessions, secession will never happen...just ask any hard-core Québécois secession advocate.

Bwahahahaha.

I hope you don't get offended by this if you're a Scot, but Scotland would be a third world country if it didn't receive massive amounts of taxpayer money from Westminster.

Also, the "leaders" that created this mess for Britain were mostly (though not entirely) Scots - Blair, Brown and the bankers running RBS and HBOS.

Scotland's position in the UK is the OPPOSITE of Germany's in the EU, i.e. while the UK could survive without Scotland, the EU won't survive without Germany.

And where does Westminster get the money? Am I correct in understanding that much of the oil production in the UK sector of the North Sea comes from offshore territory that would be Scotland's if it was independent?

[BiscayneSunrise]

Re: Forget the Great In Britain

Secessionists seem to draw strength from three things:[LIST][*]Endless retelling of the historical grievances and wrongs done to their people;[*]Dreaming about the utopian possibilities of secession;[*]Using the constant threat of secession as leverage to make political gains.

One other thing as well: The loss of ability to control the political agenda at the national level. Witness libertarians in the US calling for secession, frustrated and powerless to stop the liberal agenda

[audrey_girl]

Re: Forget the Great In Britain

The bubble in the financial economy masked the decline - signs of which were visible everywhere. I remember coming to the UK as a college grad from India and being amazed at the incompetence that was commonplace.

Once famed for the quality of its engineers, British goods became of such shoddy quality that it was embarrassing (or ought to have been) for the country. However, the booming financial services economy gave a platform to Lilliputians like Blair and Brown to go swaggering to international forums and lecture the world on everything under the sun - global warming, race relations, economics, health care, education, multiculturalism (or any other passing fad that had the ivory tower academics agog with excitement).

But behind the facade of power was a rotting country in which things were falling apart. The health care system, the schools, educational standards, law and order, border controls etc etc. This crisis is Britain's moment of truth. Not only is it finished as a serious power, it needs to weed out leaders who are too concerned about "saving the world". It needs a new generation of leaders who are willing to face up to the real problems facing the country - particularly the spectacular pace of social breakdown that is wrecking its towns and cities. Somehow I don't think we will see that happen. We will see one set of show boaters replaced by another set of show boaters.

On a side note, the Newsweek article is mostly garbage.

sounds very much like the US

[BiscayneSunrise]

Re: Forget the Great In Britain

One of the main goals for the Axis powers in WW 2 was to break the back of British, Dutch and French colonialism.

It could be argued that even though the Axis lost the war, one of their main goals was achieved since Britain was broken economically and politically, virtually all of their colonies became independent, as did the Dutch holdings.

The French were a little more stubborn holding on to Vietnam for a while longer.

The US filled the vacuum and it a great degree still does but WW 2 was the catalyst for even more rapid globalization and equality between the east and west. Not exactly how the Japanese war lords had planned it but probably pretty close to how the colonies dreamed of it.