Afghanistan

[audrey_girl]

Re: Afghanistan

"Blessed are the peacemakers for they shall be called the children of God" -

Jesus, Sermon on the Mount

"Those who live by the sword shall die by the sword" -

Jesus, during his arrest at the Garden of Gesemethe

"I like your Christ, I do not like your Christians. Your Christians are so unlike your Christ. "

Mohandas Gandhi

[Starving Steve]

Re: Afghanistan

So what would you do to bring the radical clerics running Iran to justice for all of their mass executions carried-out last week?

Or is no-one to be held responsible for their behaviour?

I respect your spirituality, but justice cries-out.

Yes, everything is relative to a point, but when it comes to 9/11 or the murderers in Tehran, I say, "Give war a chance."

Imagine what a few air strikes now could do to de-stablilize that regime in Iran? We can do it. Yes, it can be done. Si, se puede hacerlo hecho.;)

[iyamwutiam]

Re: Afghanistan

So what would you do to bring the radical clerics running Iran to justice for all of their mass executions carried-out last week?

Or is no-one to be held responsible for their behaviour?

I respect your spirituality, but justice cries-out.

Yes, everything is relative to a point, but when it comes to 9/11 or the murderers in Tehran, I say, "Give war a chance."

Imagine what a few air strikes now could do to de-stablilize that regime in Iran? We can do it. Yes, it can be done. Si, se puede hacerlo hecho.;)

Note-that this particular quotation is an excellent example of the new double speak. What was an empowering statement made now universal by Cesar Chavez -had nothing to do with that political failure - who first had the audacity to foist this slogan in South American elections (The 2002 Bolivian elections were a case in point. The film Our Brand is Crisis, reveals how conservative candidate Goni called in the American political consulting firm Greenberg Carville Shrum (GCS)- the brand was Si-Se puede- gee- Steve-lets take a serious violation of human rights for atleast a century by native people (the same way white Americans are NOW native to the US) and then take from them their most powerful symbol of victory. How uninformed and stoopid are the many -not to be aware --- yet again!!

Justice cries out ? Sort of like for Whom does the Bell Toll? Apparently in Spain in tolled for Europeans and Americans like Hemingway, Lillian Helman, etc. The fact that there were international brigades of 'volunteers' was applauded.

However-when there is an equal international brigade to resist/desist/mediate/ and most importantly question illegal occupations of two nations at one time-on NO direct evidence that these poplations or governments harbored or assisted any acts against the US. We moved on to the spectacularly logical/sane and well thought out rational of pre-emptive action-- well I think we would call Hemingway a terrorist -today -only because the context is not 'European'.

What would you do to the radical rabbi's who get caught on an annual basis ripping off the USA -would and can that be construed as more than larceny -perhaps treason -especially when it includes the most documented and evidential proofs of espionage by any nation with or against the US?! How about non-rabbi's like Bernie Madoff, Dick Fuld?!

Don't respect 'my' spirituality- of tis I implore you. I ask you to explore and embrace spirituality. Use the same zeal, enthusiasm and critical thinking you would for the assessment of MONEY for the bleeding, crying, starving, burning, phosphorus gasses, depleted uranium, agent orange/red/white and blue used on countless peoples in countless nations.

All the while -of course- one 'logically' comes to the ludicrous conclusions of 'limited' resources in a world that relies on creating huge surpluses -to make paper profits while flushing away clean water /air/dignity/humanity/compassion.

Jesus -surely was not talking to only his disciples-when he prophesized a multitude of betrayal to all our kin -humanity.

[c1ue]

Re: Afghanistan

Steve,

Sorry, but your view that genocide would somehow solve the Afghanistan 'problem', the Iran 'problem', or any other 'problem' is simply wrong.

6M Jews seems like a lot - although in reality many of the 'final solution'ed were not Jewish, but Europe's population at the time was at least 120M (Germany, France, Spain, Benelux), adding in Eastern Europe (Romania, Bulgaria, then Yugoslavia, Ukraine, Poland, etc) and you're talking 170M+: almost 28 to 1 odds in population and 2.5 to 1 odds in terms of German soldiers.

Exterminating the Afghans with their population of 38M or Iran with its population of 71M - who's going to do that? you?

If every single soldier in the US armed forces were in Afghanistan, each one would have to shoot 20+ people. In Iran the quota would be closer to 30.

And trying to exterminate so many people - do you think the survivors, not to mention the emigrants, are going to go quietly into the night?

[BlackVoid]

Re: Afghanistan

Steve's solution would cut the oil supplies from the Middle East and cause massive chaos worldwide. :eek:

Its not only unethical, its outright stupid.

[Starving Steve]

Re: Afghanistan

"Depleted uranium" as some sort of offensive weapon?

Depleted uranium is used as a metal to cover American tanks, I believe. It is very heavy and absorbs radar, making the tank invisible, on a radar screen. Or something like that, whatever? Anyway, no harm done to anyone by depleted uranium, so no need to worry about depleted uranium.

As for spirituality, good for you. Anything to replace religion now could only benefit mankind.

As for Afganistan, the way I see the future is that the U.S. will make air-strikes against the Taliban from the safety of ships at sea. A button will be pushed, and the Taliban will be hit. This whack-a-mole game will go on for years.

As for symmmmmmmmmmpathy for the Taliban? I would like to see them hit and hit and hit and hit, and hit again. Kill them all. "Give war a chance."

Yesterday, the Islamo-fascists tried to slip weapons into Gaza via tunnels from Egypt. (Sept. 2nd) So the Isreali Air Force bombed the tunnels, and the problem was vapourized. End of problem for a few months, at least. Maybe kill a few more radical clerics, and the Palestinians will become downright civil and compromising in a peace agreement with Isreal.

Have a nice day.

[ASH]

Re: Afghanistan

"Depleted uranium" as some sort of offensive weapon?

Depleted uranium is used as a metal to cover American tanks, I believe. It is very heavy and absorbs radar, making the tank invisible, on a radar screen. Or something like that, whatever? Anyway, no harm done to anyone by depleted uranium, so no need to worry about depleted uranium.

Yes, used in tank armor -- but not as a radar screen. Also widely used in American armor-piercing munitions.

[iyamwutiam]

Re: Afghanistan

"Depleted uranium" as some sort of offensive weapon?

Depleted uranium is used as a metal to cover American tanks, I believe. It is very heavy and absorbs radar, making the tank invisible, on a radar screen. Or something like that, whatever? Anyway, no harm done to anyone by depleted uranium, so no need to worry about depleted uranium.

As for spirituality, good for you. Anything to replace religion now could only benefit mankind.

As for Afganistan, the way I see the future is that the U.S. will make air-strikes against the Taliban from the safety of ships at sea. A button will be pushed, and the Taliban will be hit. This whack-a-mole game will go on for years.

As for symmmmmmmmmmpathy for the Taliban? I would like to see them hit and hit and hit and hit, and hit again. Kill them all. "Give war a chance."

Yesterday, the Islamo-fascists tried to slip weapons into Gaza via tunnels from Egypt. (Sept. 2nd) So the Isreali Air Force bombed the tunnels, and the problem was vapourized. End of problem for a few months, at least. Maybe kill a few more radical clerics, and the Palestinians will become downright civil and compromising in a peace agreement with Isreal.

Have a nice day.

This might help your zeal to kill anyone who doesn't "see" it your way. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Depleted_uranium -it has nothing to do with hiding tanks-it has to do with mass extermination -like 1000 tons dropped in major cities of Iraq in only 2 years!!!

Can we stop the circulation of a meaningless term like Islamo-fascist. It is purely an invention -like Cathlo-Fascist or Zionist-Fascist. The bottom line is tthat with out 'other' agenda (Oil/NG-basically usurping everyone's resources, continual exhorbitant funding for DoD)- the 'wars' in Vietnam/El Salvador/Guatemala/(rofl) Grenada & Panama.

I mean how much evidence does one really need after 40 years and atleast 7 wars declared against other countries. The solution would never be (atleast on ur minds) that bombing innocent civilians to smithereens as an aspect of war. This 'tradition' we can thank World War II -where shock & awe basically meant bombing innocent/defenceless peple and targets (Schools/hospitals/factories) -see Dresden/all of Vietnam and Cambodia -btw Steve-the wack a mole game in Vietnam used more bombing in Vietnam than the ENTIRE amount of bombs used in World War II!!!!! How's that working out ?

The fact that someone can casually contemplate what you suggest -only makes the world even more pathetic. I urge you to put aside your animosity and contemplate that in truth -we are all humankind-and despite the short term results -we understand that as a culture -we are planting seeds that may result in a harvest of ignomy, moral bankruptcy, and in my eyes the worst of all -destroys the countless deposits of love/faith/compassion imbued into or lives by the many living and foregone ancestors of all of us.

[D-Mack]

Re: Afghanistan

"Depleted uranium" as some sort of offensive weapon?

Depleted uranium is used as a metal to cover American tanks, I believe. It is very heavy and absorbs radar, making the tank invisible, on a radar screen. Or something like that, whatever? Anyway, no harm done to anyone by depleted uranium, so no need to worry about depleted uranium.

As for spirituality, good for you. Anything to replace religion now could only benefit mankind.

As for Afganistan, the way I see the future is that the U.S. will make air-strikes against the Taliban from the safety of ships at sea. A button will be pushed, and the Taliban will be hit. This whack-a-mole game will go on for years.

As for symmmmmmmmmmpathy for the Taliban? I would like to see them hit and hit and hit and hit, and hit again. Kill them all. "Give war a chance."

Yesterday, the Islamo-fascists tried to slip weapons into Gaza via tunnels from Egypt. (Sept. 2nd) So the Isreali Air Force bombed the tunnels, and the problem was vapourized. End of problem for a few months, at least. Maybe kill a few more radical clerics, and the Palestinians will become downright civil and compromising in a peace agreement with Isreal.

Have a nice day.

Even if you don't believe in radiation toxicity, like one of the army experts
DU rounds are for blowing stuff up.

The official American position is that it is safe. In March, US Army Colonel James Naughton dismissed Iraqi claims that DU weapons caused cancers and leukaemia in children who played around bombed-out tanks and buildings during the first Gulf War. He claimed the real reason Iraq complained about DU weapons was because they were so effective. "Why do they (the then Iraqi government) want it to go away?" Naughton asked. "They want it to go away because we kicked the crap out of them. There is no doubt DU gave us a huge advantage over their tanks."

In the first Gulf War, most American deaths were from friendly-fire DU weapons. Rokke was ordered to decontaminate shot-up vehicles and tanks and to investigate health effects on troops. Dressed in protective gear and masks, he and his team crawled over tanks and other vehicles, sending some back to the US. Those considered too dangerous to move were buried in a giant hole in the ground.

In the mid-1990s, he was recalled from an academic job to head the Depleted Uranium Project in Nevada, which test-fired weapons into targets to analyse the health risks and to work out how to clean up safely.

Rokke, now 54, is convinced that he and other members of his team in Iraq were contaminated and that the tests he undertook showed that significant amounts of the DU vaporised on impact, making it extremely dangerous when inhaled. He pulls up his trouser leg to reveal the red rash he says appeared within hours of his contact with DU. He holds up his hand and moves fingers clumsily to show that his fine motor skills have gone. He has respiratory problems and cataracts and has medical reports showing that the amount of uranium in his urine is way above acceptable limits.

He has become a campaigner, not just for better clean-up and treatment, but for the weapons to be banned. "After everything I've seen, everything I've done, it became very clear to me that you just can't take radioactive wastes from one nation and just throw it into another nation. It's wrong. It's simply wrong."
http://www.informationclearinghouse....rticle4439.htm

Some people in Iraq/Afghanistan blame it for their mutations
http://www.thepeoplesvoice.org/cgi-b...06/04/29/p7926

[ASH]

Re: Afghanistan

Even if you don't believe in radiation toxicity, like one of the army experts
DU rounds are for blowing stuff up.

Some people in Iraq/Afghanistan blame it for their mutations
http://www.thepeoplesvoice.org/cgi-b...06/04/29/p7926

Yeah. My understanding is that the tests which show DU is biologically "safe" involve inserting lumps of the stuff into test animals. That probably establishes chemical and radiological toxicity... for solid lumps... in muscle tissue (or whereever they put it)... for acute effects only...

I think the concern over toxicity of small DU particulates may be well-founded. Hell, breathing coal dust or rock dust isn't so great for you, either. Mutations... I don't know about that. I'm sure the DU isn't the only candidate in a war zone.

[lakedaemonian]

Re: Afghanistan

Yeah. My understanding is that the tests which show DU is biologically "safe" involve inserting lumps of the stuff into test animals. That probably establishes chemical and radiological toxicity... for solid lumps... in muscle tissue (or whereever they put it)... for acute effects only...

I think the concern over toxicity of small DU particulates may be well-founded. Hell, breathing coal dust or rock dust isn't so great for you, either. Mutations... I don't know about that. I'm sure the DU isn't the only candidate in a war zone.

All the folks I know personally who have served in a cross section of western nations' forces have taken precautions when in close proximity to locations where DU rounds were used, or simply avoid them when possible.

[Starving Steve]

Re: Afghanistan

Yeah. My understanding is that the tests which show DU is biologically "safe" involve inserting lumps of the stuff into test animals. That probably establishes chemical and radiological toxicity... for solid lumps... in muscle tissue (or whereever they put it)... for acute effects only...

I think the concern over toxicity of small DU particulates may be well-founded. Hell, breathing coal dust or rock dust isn't so great for you, either. Mutations... I don't know about that. I'm sure the DU isn't the only candidate in a war zone.

Uranium is all but edible. It is non-toxic. End of story. And small amounts of radiation from long half-life elements are NON-TOXIC.

The flocking U.S. EPA tried to tell the people of Minnesota that taconite would cause asbestos in Lake Superior, and the lives of all people in the cities along the shore of Lake Superior were in jeopardy. And for years, this crap was believed-------------UNTIL NO-ONE DIED OR GOT SICK FROM TACONITE. NO-ONE DIED FROM ASBESTOS IN LAKE SUPERIOR.

Now the EPA hides from the disclosure about what they did to workers in the taconite industry by all of their lies about asbestos in Lake Superior. The workers in the taconite industry lost their jobs because the taconite plant at Silver Bay, Minn. was closed by the EPA.

Uranium is fine. Depleted Uranium is even safer for humans. Mercury is only toxic in vapours and then only in large amounts. I played with mercury as a child, and most kids in San Jose, Cal. played with mercury as children since mercury was mined in nearby New Almaden (part of San Jose). Asbestos from taconite is fine. Lake Superior is still fine. Everyone along Lake Superior's shores is fine and growing older.

The bottomline is: DON'T BELIEVE ANYTHING FROM THE E.P.A. in the USA.

As a kid, I kept not only mercury in my bedroom but also carnitite ore which is rich in uranium. I also had a tiny bit of radium from radium watch dials which I reclaimed in a bottle. Even to-day, my desk in East Sooke, BC has on top of it, on display, a rich rock of cinnabar ore from New Almaden which contains mercury.

Sorry, but I am fine. Sorry, but everything the eco-frauds have ever warned about or whatever they have promised in my lifetime has turned-out to be a lie. And that is the truth.

[KGW]

Re: Afghanistan

If a piece punches through your body, you bet your ass it's "toxic." Aggressive warfare is a violation of the "laws" of war, and the U.S. is the prime violator.

[ThePythonicCow]

Re: Afghanistan

Aggressive warfare is a violation of the "laws" of war

War is aggression. Good grief. There's no "law" of war that says you should be a wimp.

I might agree with you that we shouldn't be fighting some of the places we're fighting. But so long as we involved in some war, I sure hope we're aggressive.

[D-Mack]

Re: Afghanistan

War is aggression. Good grief. There's no "law" of war that says you should be a wimp.

I might agree with you that we shouldn't be fighting some of the places we're fighting. But so long as we involved in some war, I sure hope we're aggressive.

I think the Nuremberg principle is meant

A war of aggression is a military conflict waged absent the justification of self-defense. Waging such a war of aggression is a crime under the customary international law. It is generally agreed by scholars in international law that the military actions of the Nazi regime in World War II in its search for so-called "Lebensraum" are characteristic of a war of aggression.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/War_of_aggression