How To Avoid Getting Kidnapped In China

[Jim Nickerson]

Re: How To Avoid Getting Kidnapped In China

http://blogs.cfr.org/setser/2009/07/...-kettle-black/

Decent piece by Setzer Pot calling kettle black?

The way to avoid getting kidnapped in China is stay TF out of China.

[skyson]

Re: How To Avoid Getting Kidnapped In China

so glad we owe this nation of thugs $1 trillion :mad:

be careful about what you say, you could be sued for $1.3 billion

about the kidnapping, from my personal experience, is actually quite a common resolve between parties of dispute, because china is not the land of law yet. personal resolution(by friends and extended families, community leaders, mafias, etc) of conflicts is still the preferred choice over the not so efficient judicial system...

anyone paying attention to the US-China Strategic and Economic Dialogue?

The US has agreed to loosen restrictions on the export of hi-tech goods to China and speed up its recognition of the nation's market economy

China's Central Bank Governor Tuesday called for greater voice and representation for emerging and developing economies in the international financial institutions

China and the United States pledged on Tuesday to expand economic and financial cooperation amid the world's worst economic recession in decades

China told the US it hopes the nation will cut its colossal fiscal budget in order to stifle inflation and protect China's dollar-denominated assets

Oh, last one:

China, the biggest foreign holder of US Treasuries, increased its holdings of US government notes and bonds by $38 billion to $801.5 billion in May.

why they do this? the popular belief is that china is trying desperately to dump US dollar assets...:confused::confused:

[mesyn191]

Re: How To Avoid Getting Kidnapped In China

This sort of talk makes me sick to my stomach...let's not fix the spending problem just tax those EVIL rich people more...let me guess we need to 'spread the wealth around' too?

The rich aren't putting in their proper share, they reap far more of the benefits of the system than most and so they should put proportionally more back into it, for the good of all society. This is not a new or socialist or even communist concept BTW:

The necessaries of life occasion the great expense of the poor. They find it difficult to get food, and the greater part of their little revenue is spent in getting it. The luxuries and vanities of life occasion the principal expense of the rich, and a magnificent house embellishes and sets off to the best advantage all the other luxuries and vanities which they possess. A tax upon house-rents, therefore, would in general fall heaviest upon the rich; and in this sort of inequality there would not, perhaps, be anything very unreasonable. It is not very unreasonable that the rich should contribute to the public expense, not only in proportion to their revenue, but something more than in that proportion.

There was a time when the taxes on the rich were much MUCH higher (over 90% in the 1950's!), and yet still there were plenty of rich people around, even by todays standards. They can afford it.

[WildspitzE]

Re: How To Avoid Getting Kidnapped In China

The rich aren't putting in their proper share,

According to who? measured how?

they reap far more of the benefits of the system than most and so they should put proportionally more back into it, for the good of all society.

Measured how? "for the good of all society" ... oh boy.

This is not a new or socialist or even communist concept BTW: Adam Smith....

Is this an argument? There was a time when the US progressed and there were no income taxes too. Adam Smith? WGAS. The concept is the same, whether it was Adam Smith who proposes this parasitism or earlier brits, namely those living as feudal lords. Besides, as a link to socialism, as Rothbard once said when discussing the myth of Adam Smith:

"On the other hand, Marxists, with somewhat more justice, hail Smith as the ultimate inspiration of their own Founding Father, Karl Marx. "

There was a time when the taxes on the rich were much MUCH higher (over 90% in the 1950's!), and yet still there were plenty of rich people around, even by todays standards.

There was a time when every non-royal was a slave too.

They can afford it.

It's cool as long as someone else is the one being coerced. Until the time, and it will come, when the gun comes for you too.

[cjppjc]

Re: How To Avoid Getting Kidnapped In China




Yes the rich need to do more. It's obvious.

Btw: I'm in the lowest 5% of those who pay taxes.

[c1ue]

Re: How To Avoid Getting Kidnapped In China

Income taxes are less than 1/2 of federal government revenue:

http://www.usgovernmentrevenue.com/y...html#usgs30240

Total federal revenue in 2008: $2.524T

Individual income tax revenue: $1.145T

Social insurance revenue: $0.898T

Then there are the property, sales, and other local/state taxes - these are almost 100% individual, and equally likely not majority paid by the top 1% of the population.

http://www.nowandfutures.com/taxes.html

How much tax do we really pay?

Item	Rate	Notes
Federal personal income tax	17%	Top 25% rate. It ranges from a credit up to well over 40%. Source
State & local income taxes	10.1%	State taxes range from under 6% to over 12%. Local taxes run from zero to 2.75%. Source, source, source2008 source
Sales tax	8.6%	Figure is the average rate. State sales taxes range up to 7% and local taxes run from zero to over 5%. Source, source, source
Social security & Medicaid	7.65%	Total rate is actually 15.3% since half is paid by the employer, but we're ignoring that to be kind. Source, box 1
Federal corporate income tax share	3%	Based on corporate taxes being approximately 1/6 of personal taxes, and that they are paid by individuals in the final analysis. Source
Property tax	2.5%	Yearly average actual costs range from under $200 in Alaska to almost $1900 in New Jersey. Source
Fuel/gasoline tax	.5%	Approximately 23% of the 2005 gasoline price is for federal & state taxes. The federal excise tax is 18.4 cents per gallon. Per the CPI, about 6% of the average budget is for transportation. Estimated. Source
Other	5%	Includes estate tax, fees, licenses, inflation losses, inheritance, deficit allowance, gift, and others too numerous to mention. Estimated.

Assuming bart's info is correct - then the $1.145T of individual income taxes represents less than 1/3 of the overall tax burden.

So unless you believe the top 1% pay 40% of all sales, social security, medicare, property, gasoline, and other taxes, it is disingenuous to say that the rich pay their 'fair share'.

[flintlock]

Re: How To Avoid Getting Kidnapped In China

The way to avoid getting kidnapped in China is stay TF out of China.

LOL, that would be my strategy.

[flintlock]

Re: How To Avoid Getting Kidnapped In China

The rich aren't putting in their proper share, they reap far more of the benefits of the system than most and so they should put proportionally more back into it, for the good of all society. This is not a new or socialist or even communist concept BTW:



There was a time when the taxes on the rich were much MUCH higher (over 90% in the 1950's!), and yet still there were plenty of rich people around, even by todays standards. They can afford it.

Actually if you believe in the individual, the rich do pay their fair share. And then some. If you have a collectivist mindset then they probably don't.

But then you can take that farther. Childless couples pay more than their share. Why should they pay for my kids education, roads to drive on, national defense,etc? You can go on all day about what is fair but the real problem is trying to take 300 million people and have them live without risk or distress while a minority pays for it. The real problem is spending and until that is addressed we are not going to see any solution regardless of the tax rate. All consequences for poor retirement and family planning have been removed from our society. Have more kids than you can afford, no problem, the gubment will send you a check so everything is fair. Blow all your money on booze and hookers rather than save for retirement? No worries, we have plans for that to make everything right.

Its funny how I see people bring up historic levels of taxation. We didn't even have an income tax long ago. Some of that is because people knew there were consequences for unwise behavior. You didn't put aside food for the winter you starved, simple as that. I'm not saying to let people starve, but we just make it too damn easy for people to act foolishly with their finances today. Like walking on a high wire. If you know there is a net below you it changes your whole attitude.

[World Traveler]

Re: How To Avoid Getting Kidnapped In China

Clue,

You've done many excellent posts, but this is one of your best yet. I just wish it was in its own thread, instead of one on kidnapping in China!

Over 50% of Americans, pay more in Social Security taxes than they do in federal income taxes. And where did their SS taxes go?

To fund the day to day operations of the federal government, for the last 25 years. When $300 billion was a lot of money, that is roughly what the federal government borrowed from Social Security in the 1980's and 1990's, $300 billion in each decade.

The Social Security surplus is what funded the income tax cuts at the top rates (primarily benefiting America's richest and best-connected, as always).

And now, working Americans are told that the money they paid in for their retirement is just not there, and that "adjustments" to their SS benefits will be likely in the future. The real reasons this happened are never explained, it's just presented as something we have to deal with now.

By the same shills in the financial media that championed income tax cuts for the richest Americans. An article by Alan Sloan I read today in Fortune is the just the latest example.

I'm beyond disgust.

[flintlock]

Re: How To Avoid Getting Kidnapped In China

Yeah, sometimes it gets my blood up when I hear the same old refrain, " Most people poor people pay no taxes at all ".:mad: If you work you almost always pay some tax, just not in the form of federal income taxes. But you still pay a variety of other taxes, chiefly payroll taxes, sales taxes and other fees. But what difference does it make? Its like when the trash collector collects your trash and recyclables separately, only to dump it all into the landfill when no one is looking.

[mesyn191]

Re: How To Avoid Getting Kidnapped In China

measured how?

Look at wages vs. taxes/cost of living, this isn't rocket science you know.

Measured how?

Bear in mind productivity of the worker has increased at the same time, so they're doing more and getting paid less to do it. The wealth is being redistributed to the rich...

"for the good of all society" ... oh boy.

Governments are all about redistributing wealth in various ways to benefit all, at least that is what they're supposed to do, among other things. If you agree with this as good/proper thing then we're just quibbling over details, if you disagree than it seems to me that you're a anarchist.

Is this an argument?

No, just brought it up because there are many who view the idea of a progressive tax system as radical/unheard of, it really is a very old idea.

There was a time when the US progressed and there were no income taxes too.

Sure, and we could perhaps have that again, but government as we know it today probably wouldn't exist. Now that may be a good thing in your eyes, I think many (myself included) would disagree with you.

Adam Smith? WGAS.

Smith pretty much wrote the book on the "free market" as many would espouse "ideally" today, to paint him as a socialist/communist (especially when he is viewed with disgust by most if not all of that group) is either an incredible act of hyperbole or insanity.

There was a time when every non-royal was a slave too.

Are you really comparing high taxes on the rich to slavery? Really?? Really, really?! Even if you taxed someone who made say $250,000 at 60% (which BTW I wouldn't support, I wouldn't consider them rich, this is more of a hyperbolic example...), their take home pay would still be $100,000. That is still more money than many if not most take home BEFORE taxes. If you have an ounce of common sense you can live quite well on that sort of money. Now try applying that example (a bit more realistically...) to the truly rich (ie. those who make $1 million, tens of millions, hundreds of millions, a year). They'll STILL be filthy rich compared to the rest of us, and live WAY better, on top of that to some extent at least money begets money. What I mean by that is that the richer you are the easier it becomes to make money, unless you're really stupid with it, past a certain point the wealth becomes self sustaining.

Until the time, and it will come, when the gun comes for you too.

What

[flintlock]

Re: How To Avoid Getting Kidnapped In China

Most arguments about taxes always miss the point. The powers that be love to pit rich vs poor on this issue when the real problem is they are stealing money from all of us. I think taxes are too high on almost everyone in the US. They try to deliver too high a service in a very inefficient manner. It's not sustainable. Sure the deck is stacked in favor of the very rich. But when in history has that not been the case?

The problem is, everyone thinks their slice of the government pie is worth keeping. Medicare recipients think that money is money well spent. Welfare recipients say the same. Those who work for the government insist life would not go on if they didn't perform their jobs. I've got news for all the above, life went on 200 years ago when government was something you barely ever thought about. Sure life is more complex, we need more government than we used to, but the pendulum has swung too far and now we will either let it swing back the other way or the whole thing will fall apart.

[mesyn191]

Re: How To Avoid Getting Kidnapped In China

They try to deliver too high a service in a very inefficient manner. It's not sustainable.

What if the inefficiency is fixed/reduced? There are countries other than the UK/Canada that have a UHS for instance, and it works just fine for them. Mind you, any system will have its fair share of screw ups, ours frequently has issues where people are misdiagnosed and/or wrong operations are performed which are the horror stories you generally hear about when people start "talking" about a UHS. Most of them aren't really talking IMO, just regurgitating talking points....

Sure the deck is stacked in favor of the very rich. But when in history has that not been the case?

In the near past it seems things weren't nearly so stacked in their favor though, why can't we have that again?

I've got news for all the above, life went on 200 years ago when government was something you barely ever thought about.

Sure, but life span and quality of life was generally much shorter and much worse for most everyone back then. Also economically/politically/geographically things were much more different back than as well, I don't think you could get away with lots of the things they did back then.

Sure life is more complex, we need more government than we used to, but the pendulum has swung too far and now we will either let it swing back the other way or the whole thing will fall apart.

It seems to me all we need do is reduce the graft/corruption and get more people who are interested in doing the job properly in gov. rather than those who want to pander to whatever ideology is most prominent in their voter base. I don't see that happening anytime soon though.