So this is what it's come to...

[ThePythonicCow]

Re: So this is what it's come to...

What about the Government self-gratification with the information contained in your computer?

That's an incorrect characterization of that legal disclaimer. That disclaimer just applies to car dealers, and just because some bozo Government legal begal says they own everything onto or nearby your computer doesn't mean they can just take it quietly over the internet, unless your computer is sadly insecure. See further my post on another thread Facist American Government seizing your files on your PC?.

[jpatter666]

Re: So this is what it's come to...

Thank you for your gracious compliment Ann. You post infrequently; today a bit more than usual...I have spent the last hour or so searching out and reading each of your new posts...for much the same reasons.

Agreed. I asked FRED if there was a way to subscribe to individuals in addition to discussion threads (instead of having occasionally finding all posts by about 5-10 people I follow very closely).

Currently not available, but maybe if more people ask, we'll get it.

[jk]

Re: So this is what it's come to...

I enjoy each and every one of your posts. Do not take this as anything but a rhetorical exercise.

What if Bernanke had no choice? What if he had no "tools" as he put it to break the contracts that resulted in these obscene bonuses?

I bet that this was the case. Yet, I do not understand why did he not find a way to get to the media to warn us about it.

they had a choice to force a [pick a number between 0-100%] haircut on aig's liabilities, and to add whatever conditions they wished before paying anything at all. that gave them, e.g., a $14billion tool to use in dealing with gs, etc.

[jk]

Re: So this is what it's come to...

Agreed. I asked FRED if there was a way to subscribe to individuals in addition to discussion threads (instead of having occasionally finding all posts by about 5-10 people I follow very closely).

Currently not available, but maybe if more people ask, we'll get it.

i would certainly make use of such a tool. i will pm fred, also.

[World Traveler]

Re: So this is what it's come to...

One part of the world I'm familiar with is Central and South America. The U.S. is taking on a lot of its characteristics.

In the 1990's and 2000's, I spent many of my vacations there, as part of my campaign to become fluent in Spanish. I lived with local families and so had the opportunity to talk to people most Americans don't, the ones who can't speak English, and to have long discussions with them.

Every country had the same characteristics. The people were very cynical about their governments and in some ways without much hope. Politics was a "businesss", I was told, used to enrich one's cronies and oneself. The police were despised everywhere, viewed as corrupt and on the take. That's due to low police salaries. And following the example of the nation's wealthy elite and politicians, who are on the take and lack genuine commitment to the common good.

These countries had small middle classes hustling like hell, to stay off the slippery slope downward into the poverty of the majority. And the nation's wealth controlled by a small minority who seemed to feel little responsibility to or compassion for the impoverished masses...their only interest was in using the system to further enrich themselves.

The above dynamics make these countries unstable, crime-ridden, and dangerous, due to the availability of guns and lack of social cohesion and hope. This is what I fear might happen in the U.S., if we don't get our act together and stop the redistribution of wealth upward to the moneyed classes.

In these countries, even having some money doesn't solve your problems, since kidnapping for cash and ransom is a major problem.

[GRG55]

Re: So this is what it's come to...

...Every country had the same characteristics. The people were very cynical about their governments and in some ways without much hope. Politics was a "businesss", I was told, used to enrich one's cronies and oneself...

That sentence describes the difference between most
"developing economies" and the so-called "developed economy democracies" [USA, Canada, UK, France, etc.].

In the former one first seizes political power and then uses it to become wealthy. In the latter one must become wealthy first...and then you use that wealth to exert political influence...

[c1ue]

Re: So this is what it's come to...

In the former one first seizes political power and then uses it to become wealthy. In the latter one must become wealthy first...and then you use that wealth to exert political influence...

So what does the Bill Clinton experience tell us?

Clinton net worth before Presidency:<$1M

Clinton net worth after Presidency: $34.9M

http://money.cnn.com/galleries/2007/...mag/index.html

[LargoWinch]

Re: So this is what it's come to...

Hilary must be reading iTulip since she is 30 out of 35 in cash ... well ok in bonds as well, but close.

[GRG55]

Re: So this is what it's come to...

So what does the Bill Clinton experience tell us?

It tells us when you take care of your wealthy friends [the ones who are exerting political influence]...they take care of you.

You'll recall, I'm sure, the Marc Rich pardon just as Clinton was exiting office...he didn't do it for campaign donations, that's for sure...

And if you remain unconvinced, have a read through this article. It makes no attempt to disguise how the system works...

Exit the Czar
Steve Rattner, the journalist turned banker turned Car Czar, steered his way to the pinnacle of the New York–Washington elite, the most effectively ambitious player of his generation...

A few excerpts, that I think amply illustrate the point... :p

...Steve Rattner was in his late twenties and a star reporter at the New York Times when he had a conversation that helped change his life. That’s when a friend introduced him to a young Goldman Sachs arbitrageur named Robert Rubin, who shared the plan for his own life. “How much do you like money?” Rubin asked Rattner, by way of preamble. “Let me tell you how I think about it. I like what I do, and I want to achieve financial security for my family and myself. And then I want to do something more public-minded. I want to be secretary of the Treasury.”...

...Maureen White, Rattner’s wife and herself an investment banker at the time, understood the scope of her husband’s ambition. “It begins to get on you after a while that [as a journalist] you are writing about people who have more power than you, more influence and more money, and are not any more capable,” she told The Washington Monthly. “Why in God’s name are you trailing them around the world and writing about them when you are smart enough to make the money and have influence commensurate with theirs?”...

...He’s told friends that, after his Washington adventures, banking has lost its excitement. He’d loved Washington, the high stakes, the public service, the whole heady drama. “There are not many people who spend as much time with the president in four years as I spent in six months”...

[c1ue]

Re: So this is what it's come to...

Quote:

Originally Posted by c1ue So what does the Bill Clinton experience tell us?

It tells us when you take care of your wealthy friends [the ones who are exerting political influence]...they take care of you.

You'll recall, I'm sure, the Marc Rich pardon just as Clinton was exiting office...he didn't do it for campaign donations, that's for sure...

I was referring to the:

3rd world: political power, then money
1st world: money, then political power

Can you say UBRA: United Banana Republic of America. Government and Service Jobs for All!

[metalman]

Re: So this is what it's come to...

I was referring to the:

3rd world: political power, then money
1st world: money, then political power

Can you say UBRA: United Banana Republic of America. Government and Service Jobs for All!

that's... Government and Service Jobs for All!

[jk]

Re: So this is what it's come to...

I was referring to the:

3rd world: political power, then money
1st world: money, then political power

Can you say UBRA: United Banana Republic of America. Government and Service Jobs for All!

the people with political power are not necessarily the office-holders, themselves. the clintons were paid handsomely for their services. query: services to whom?

[dcarrigg]

Re: So this is what it's come to...

Quote:
Originally Posted by ThePythonicCow
Don't overreact. We have great dangers, but this is just harmless arrogant legal stupidity.

If you are running a computer system so insecure that the government can get to any of your computer files, then...

...somehow the government IT guy figured out where to put the punchcards into his macbook.

Most 40k/year government IT specialists can barely reinstall XP fast enough to keep up with the next spyware download that makes the wonderfully configured Dell Core2Duo with a 500GB hard drive and 128MB RAM crash again.

Seriously - the cash for clunkers program is not employing cybersecurity experts to steal sales logs from GM - hell, if they wanted that information, they could probably just ask for it at the next board meeting.


[reposted here]

[ThePythonicCow]

Re: So this is what it's come to...

...somehow the government IT guy figured out where to put the punchcards into his macbook.

Good point.

Some of the car dealers (the ones who had to agree to this draconian "all your data belong to us" statement) probably aren't running very secure PC's either.

[we_are_toast]

Re: So this is what it's come to...

So what does the Bill Clinton experience tell us?

Clinton net worth before Presidency:<$1M

Clinton net worth after Presidency: $34.9M