T. Boone Pickens Calls Off Massive Texas Wind Farm

[flintlock]

Re: T. Boone Pickens Calls Off Massive Texas Wind Farm

Because he doesn't really have an audited record, it's hard to tell how good he really is. It's quite possible he made one big decision in his career, and everything after that was at least OK (with the market), so he did very well. Luck/probability plays a part in everything.

I am guessing the guy is pretty smart, but not as smart as he thinks he is. He tried to have a big idea, but looks like a mid-19th century railroad investor: good idea, but VERY bad business timing.

Exactly. You never hear about the guys who gambled big and lost. Only the winners. Not saying it was all luck, the guy probably is pretty smart, but I personally know a guy with the same type of personality and he gambled and lost. Nobody's ever heard of him, but I'm convinced someday they will.

[Starving Steve]

Re: T. Boone Pickens Calls Off Massive Texas Wind Farm

Exactly. You never hear about the guys who gambled big and lost. Only the winners. Not saying it was all luck, the guy probably is pretty smart, but I personally know a guy with the same type of personality and he gambled and lost. Nobody's ever heard of him, but I'm convinced someday they will.

I'm sure 30-story-tall giant windmills located on the Great Plains (where the wind never stops blowing at hurricane velocity) would be profitable, but the key question is: Does investing $2 billion in wind farms make more money than investing $2 billion in atomic power, especially atomic power plants located near big cities? That's what this whole energy thingy really boils down to: the best use of money.

Yes, solar might be marginally profitable if you cover the entire Sonoran Desert from Tucson, west to San Bernadino with solar cells and mirrors, but is that the best use of money when that plan would cost trillions-of-dollars?

The bottom-line is that we have to get rid of the Obama Plan for energy in the U.S. because it can not work. Solar and wind are a cruel joke..... The way out of this energy mess ( the dependence upon foreign oil ) is to drill for oil, build atomic power plants, build hydro-electric dams, use natural gas reserves ( which are in emense surplus ), and to stop wasting oil and flaunting oil consumption with over-sized vehicles the size of Hummers and Land Rovers.

Obama would prove his worth as a President of the U.S. if he would admit to his mistake with solar and wind, and now move to an energy plan that really solves the energy problem America is facing.

[Roughneck]

Re: T. Boone Pickens Calls Off Massive Texas Wind Farm

There was an article on cnn by a guy who is a supporter of green tech. The point was you have to get realistic about the scale of green energy you would need. For example by his math you would need 80 sq meters of solar panels for EVERY person to get 30% of our energy from solar. A wind farm the size of the state of California for 30%. That doesn't include the cost of transmision lines or integrating a variable power source into the electric grid. I'm not a big fan of Bob Brinker but there was a guy on his show,can't recall the name, but he is an energy expert guy who advices people who invest in energy. People who put there money on the line. according to him solar is less than 1/10 of one percent right now. With a LOT of investment yo might get 1%. Wind about 1% and maybe you could get to 10% again with a LOT of investment.

[BiscayneSunrise]

Re: T. Boone Pickens Calls Off Massive Texas Wind Farm

I'm always amazed when you see something like this happen. They guy is smart enough to amass a huge fortune but screws up bad on what seems to me to be something fairly simple. $2 Billion! That seems a lot more like gambling than investing to me. Couldn't afford a good study to determine best and WORST case scenarios? I think what we have here is a good example of how the brains to make it in a boom economy don't equal that required in a recession.

..... or perhaps he's just old and was willing to bet it all one last score? Perhaps even with good intentions for the country. :confused:

Read an article about Pickens about a year ago. I'll try to find a link but its been a while.

The jist was that Pickens real motivation was to pipe water from the aquifer underneath the windmills to Dallas. The one piece he was missing was the right of way across several hundreds of miles of private property for the pipeline. As you know, in the US west, water is a very sensitive issue. Lots of political push back.

He was using the windmill scheme because he thought it would be easier politically to get the land through eminent domain under the guise of green energy windmill power. Once the right of way was established for the electrical lines it would be just a small matter to then build the water pipeline.

[flintlock]

Re: T. Boone Pickens Calls Off Massive Texas Wind Farm

Read an article about Pickens about a year ago. I'll try to find a link but its been a while.

The jist was that Pickens real motivation was to pipe water from the aquifer underneath the windmills to Dallas. The one piece he was missing was the right of way across several hundreds of miles of private property for the pipeline. As you know, in the US west, water is a very sensitive issue. Lots of political push back.

He was using the windmill scheme because he thought it would be easier politically to get the land through eminent domain under the guise of green energy windmill power. Once the right of way was established for the electrical lines it would be just a small matter to then build the water pipeline.

That sneaky little.....

[Starving Steve]

Re: T. Boone Pickens Calls Off Massive Texas Wind Farm

Rather than draw-down upon the limited supply of fresh-water in aquifers, the best plan for mankind would be to use surplus atomic energy during the nighttime, when the need for power in cities is lowest, to filter and pump seawater up to cities like Houston and Dallas-Ft. Worth.

Here in California, we are drawing-down upon our very limited supply of fresh-water in aquifers, while we should be using atomic energy to pump and filter sea-water, instead. I fault the eco-frauds for not doing the energy planning and the water planning in the late 20thC. to prepare for the needs of the 21stC. So now, well into the 21stC, we are in deep sh*t.

As I have said, the eco-frauds here on the West Coast are even worse than the Republicans and the Tories in Canada, and that is saying something.

Saudi-Arabia is going to have cities, each with a million or more population, and guess how they are going to have their water needs met: Saudi-Arabia is going to be pumping and filtering sea-water up to its cities. (May I remind everyone here that the average annual rainfall in Saudi-Arabia is about 4 inches per year.)

This guy, Chou, the energy head in Obama's cabinet, should be fired immediately. He has failed totally to provide a meaningful and workable energy policy for America, especially for the desert South-west. Windmills and solar energy have proven to be a complete joke. And tidal power is another cruel joke, as we have found-out in Victoria, British Columbia.

Here on the central coast of California, we have drawn-down so far on our aquifers that there is now a problem with salt-water intrusion into our aquifers. Clearly, we are in deep doo-doo.

We know what to do, so let's get going on it: atomic energy and at night, filtering and pumping sea-water to replenish the aquifers and to provide for the needs of our cities. ;)

[Quincy K]

Re: T. Boone Pickens Calls Off Massive Texas Wind Farm

Rather than draw-down upon the limited supply of fresh-water in aquifers, the best plan for mankind would be to use surplus atomic energy during the nighttime, when the need for power in cities is lowest, to filter and pump seawater up to cities like Houston and Dallas-Ft. Worth.

Here in California, we are drawing-down upon our very limited supply of fresh-water in aquifers, while we should be using atomic energy to pump and filter sea-water, instead. I fault the eco-frauds for not doing the energy planning and the water planning in the late 20thC. to prepare for the needs of the 21stC. So now, well into the 21stC, we are in deep sh*t.

As I have said, the eco-frauds here on the West Coast are even worse than the Republicans and the Tories in Canada, and that is saying something.

Saudi-Arabia is going to have cities, each with a million or more population, and guess how they are going to have their water needs met: Saudi-Arabia is going to be pumping and filtering sea-water up to its cities. (May I remind everyone here that the average annual rainfall in Saudi-Arabia is about 4 inches per year.)

This guy, Chou, the energy head in Obama's cabinet, should be fired immediately. He has failed totally to provide a meaningful and workable energy policy for America, especially for the desert South-west. Windmills and solar energy have proven to be a complete joke. And tidal power is another cruel joke, as we have found-out in Victoria, British Columbia.

Here on the central coast of California, we have drawn-down so far on our aquifers that there is now a problem with salt-water intrusion into our aquifers. Clearly, we are in deep doo-doo.

We know what to do, so let's get going on it: atomic energy and at night, filtering and pumping sea-water to replenish the aquifers and to provide for the needs of our cities. ;)

I used to be in water purification. It is very expensive to de-salinate water throgh reverse osmosis. Not only that it will wreck havoc on the ocean environment.

The Salton Sea(near Palm Springs) is a great example of what happens when salinity levels are increased. It destroys all life and creates a cemetary. By the way, the Salton Sea movie is excellent and stars Val Kilmer. It is definatley worth the two hours.

The only way to preserve water is through rationing and price increases. It wouldn't surprise me if water bills in CA and water-starved states triple within the next five years.

[Starving Steve]

Re: T. Boone Pickens Calls Off Massive Texas Wind Farm

I used to be in water purification. It is very expensive to de-salinate water throgh reverse osmosis. Not only that it will wreck havoc on the ocean environment.

The Salton Sea(near Palm Springs) is a great example of what happens when salinity levels are increased. It destroys all life and creates a cemetary. By the way, the Salton Sea movie is excellent and stars Val Kilmer. It is definatley worth the two hours.

The only way to preserve water is through rationing and price increases. It wouldn't surprise me if water bills in CA and water-starved states triple within the next five years.

Most of the world is ocean. Just look at your globe.

PEOPLE come first. That is why I am NOT a member of the Sierra Club or Greenpeace or the Union of Concerned Scientists to-day. ...... PEOPLE definitely come first!

Also, a very important point, electric power during the night is in huge surplus, so rather than let it go to waste, that power could be used to pump and filter sea-water. Yes, this pumping and filtering of sea-water is expensive, but surplus electric power during the night is basically free. So the bonus is free water for the aquifers and the cities.

Planning.........it all takes planning. I'm not an engineer; I am a geographer, and I learned how to plan for the needs of cities and PEOPLE.

[yernamehear]

Re: T. Boone Pickens Calls Off Massive Texas Wind Farm

On Pickens: I had also heard about the water angle. It wouldn't surprise me at all that he had multiple biz plans.

On desal of ocean water: I work in the field of water purification and you're right about the "sizing". It will take eons to impact the ocean environment in any measurable way if done with modern engineering methods.

What's the problem with the tidal energy projects? I had heard that these held some great promise.

[Starving Steve]

Re: T. Boone Pickens Calls Off Massive Texas Wind Farm

On Pickens: I had also heard about the water angle. It wouldn't surprise me at all that he had multiple biz plans.

On desal of ocean water: I work in the field of water purification and you're right about the "sizing". It will take eons to impact the ocean environment in any measurable way if done with modern engineering methods.

What's the problem with the tidal energy projects? I had heard that these held some great promise.

The problem with tidal power is scale. They have to be massive or otherwise you have to have a gazillion of the small scale power generators. Just like windmills or solar, the problem is scale.

The Sooke Harbour tidal generation plant does not produce very much power, and BC is so desperate for power that since 2001, BC Hydro has been importing electric power from the Pacific NW states.

When I was in 6th grade down in California, I learned that BC was rich in hydro-electric power. We learned about the Kitimat hydro-electric dam, and our textbook had a picture of the aluminum smelting instilation (sp?) at Kitimat, BC. But now, in the decades since the time when I was in 6th grade, BC has gone to pot. Nothing has been built in BC worth talking about including its tidal generation site in Sooke, BC.

[BiscayneSunrise]

Re: T. Boone Pickens Calls Off Massive Texas Wind Farm

Link to article about Pickens and water.

http://www.businessweek.com/bwdaily/...078_354291.htm

The oceans may be big enough to handle the extra salinity but the local micro climate may not. For instance, the Persian Gulf is a relatively stagnant body of water and the GCC states are already seeing some environmental impact to the de-sal plants they have on line.

Probably same problem with most local jurisdictions. You can pump the extra salinity into the ocean but unless it goes into a rapid moving current like the gulfstream it will stagnate for a while before it fully mixes in with the whole ocean.

[Starving Steve]

Re: T. Boone Pickens Calls Off Massive Texas Wind Farm

Link to article about Pickens and water.

http://www.businessweek.com/bwdaily/...078_354291.htm

The oceans may be big enough to handle the extra salinity but the local micro climate may not. For instance, the Persian Gulf is a relatively stagnant body of water and the GCC states are already seeing some environmental impact to the de-sal plants they have on line.

Probably same problem with most local jurisdictions. You can pump the extra salinity into the ocean but unless it goes into a rapid moving current like the gulfstream it will stagnate for a while before it fully mixes in with the whole ocean.

The Persian Gulf is a body of water encompassing an area of 90,000 square miles with depths of up to 300feet. The only measureable impact to that body of water by mankind was when Sadam Hussein (So Damn Insane) had the Iraqi Army dump millions of barrels of crude oil into that stagnant sea in 1991.

The impact from de-salinization plants upon the Persian Gulf has been negligible, but the impact of wanton (sp?) dumping of millions of barrels of oil into that sea to sabotage de-salinization plants has been measureable.

We have to be quite accurate about the facts. Don't let the eco-frauds try to twist what the facts say. De-salinization of sea water is one thing; willfull dumping of millions of barrels of oil into that sea to sabotage de-salinization plants is quite another.

[touchring]

Re: T. Boone Pickens Calls Off Massive Texas Wind Farm

He has boomed and busted several times in his "career," the guy is a habitual big gambler/speculator. Lets see if he even makes the Fortune 400 in the fall.

he must be a ituliper, isn't green energy the next boom?

[BiscayneSunrise]

Re: T. Boone Pickens Calls Off Massive Texas Wind Farm

The Persian Gulf is a body of water encompassing an area of 90,000 square miles with depths of up to 300feet. The only measureable impact to that body of water by mankind was when Sadam Hussein (So Damn Insane) had the Iraqi Army dump millions of barrels of crude oil into that stagnant sea in 1991.

The impact from de-salinization plants upon the Persian Gulf has been negligible, but the impact of wanton (sp?) dumping of millions of barrels of oil into that sea to sabotage de-salinization plants has been measureable.

We have to be quite accurate about the facts. Don't let the eco-frauds try to twist what the facts say. De-salinization of sea water is one thing; willfull dumping of millions of barrels of oil into that sea to sabotage de-salinization plants is quite another.

I don't have data but my info comes from a friend who sells de-sal plants to the Arabs. Even he was commenting on the environmental impact, not the greenies.

[flintlock]

Re: T. Boone Pickens Calls Off Massive Texas Wind Farm

On Pickens: I had also heard about the water angle. It wouldn't surprise me at all that he had multiple biz plans.

On desal of ocean water: I work in the field of water purification and you're right about the "sizing". It will take eons to impact the ocean environment in any measurable way if done with modern engineering methods.

What's the problem with the tidal energy projects? I had heard that these held some great promise.

Funny you mention tidal energy. I always thought that would be a natural source of energy but I never hear much about it.