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  • Hospital Gowns On FIRE

    July 1, 2009
    The Work-Up
    Insured, but Bankrupted by Health Crises

    By REED ABELSON

    Too many other people already have coverage so "meager" that a medical crisis means financial calamity.

    One of them is Lawrence Yurdin, a 64-year-old computer security specialist. Although the brochure on his Aetna policy seemed to indicate it covered up to $150,000 a year in hospital care, the fine print excluded nearly all of the treatment he received at an Austin, Tex., hospital.

    He and his wife, Claire, filed for bankruptcy last December, as his unpaid medical bills approached $200,000.

    Last week, a former Cigna executive warned at a Senate hearing on health insurance that lawmakers should be careful about the role they gave private insurers in any new system, saying the companies were too prone to “confuse their customers and dump the sick.”

    “The number of uninsured people has increased as more have fallen victim to deceptive marketing practices and bought what essentially is fake insurance,” Wendell Potter, the former Cigna executive, testified.

    Mr. Yurdin learned the hard way.

    At St. David’s Medical Center in Austin, where he went for two separate heart procedures last year, the hospital’s admitting office looked at Mr. Yurdin’s coverage and talked to Aetna. St. David’s estimated that his share of the payments would be only a few thousand dollars per procedure.

    He and the hospital say they were surprised to eventually learn that the $150,000 hospital coverage in the Aetna policy was mainly for room and board. Coverage was capped at $10,000 for “other hospital services,” which turned out to include nearly all routine hospital care — the expenses incurred in the operating room, for example, and the cost of any medication he received.

    In other words, Aetna would have paid for Mr. Yurdin to stay in the hospital for more than five months — as long as he did not need an operation or any lab tests or drugs while he was there.

    “Limited benefits aren’t right for everyone, and it clearly wasn’t right for Mr. Yurdin,” said Cynthia B. Michener, an Aetna spokeswoman.

    http://www.nytimes.com/2009/07/01/bu...ef=todayspaper

    Why, you may be asking, isn't someone from Aetna not in Jail? You must be new to iTulip. Welcome aboard ;)

  • #2
    Re: Hospital Gowns On FIRE

    “Limited benefits aren’t right for everyone, and it clearly wasn’t right for Mr. Yurdin,” said Cynthia B. Michener, an Aetna spokeswoman.


    Priceless.....:mad:

    Comment


    • #3
      Re: Hospital Gowns On FIRE

      Originally posted by don View Post
      July 1, 2009
      The Work-Up
      Insured, but Bankrupted by Health Crises

      By REED ABELSON

      Too many other people already have coverage so "meager" that a medical crisis means financial calamity.

      One of them is Lawrence Yurdin, a 64-year-old computer security specialist. Although the brochure on his Aetna policy seemed to indicate it covered up to $150,000 a year in hospital care, the fine print excluded nearly all of the treatment he received at an Austin, Tex., hospital.

      He and his wife, Claire, filed for bankruptcy last December, as his unpaid medical bills approached $200,000.

      Last week, a former Cigna executive warned at a Senate hearing on health insurance that lawmakers should be careful about the role they gave private insurers in any new system, saying the companies were too prone to “confuse their customers and dump the sick.”

      “The number of uninsured people has increased as more have fallen victim to deceptive marketing practices and bought what essentially is fake insurance,” Wendell Potter, the former Cigna executive, testified.

      Mr. Yurdin learned the hard way.

      At St. David’s Medical Center in Austin, where he went for two separate heart procedures last year, the hospital’s admitting office looked at Mr. Yurdin’s coverage and talked to Aetna. St. David’s estimated that his share of the payments would be only a few thousand dollars per procedure.

      He and the hospital say they were surprised to eventually learn that the $150,000 hospital coverage in the Aetna policy was mainly for room and board. Coverage was capped at $10,000 for “other hospital services,” which turned out to include nearly all routine hospital care — the expenses incurred in the operating room, for example, and the cost of any medication he received.

      In other words, Aetna would have paid for Mr. Yurdin to stay in the hospital for more than five months — as long as he did not need an operation or any lab tests or drugs while he was there.

      “Limited benefits aren’t right for everyone, and it clearly wasn’t right for Mr. Yurdin,” said Cynthia B. Michener, an Aetna spokeswoman.

      http://www.nytimes.com/2009/07/01/bu...ef=todayspaper

      Why, you may be asking, isn't someone from Aetna not in Jail? You must be new to iTulip. Welcome aboard ;)
      A "computer security specialist" that is incapable of reading and understanding the medical policy that he purchased? I sense the reporter isn't telling the whole story here...

      Comment


      • #4
        Re: Hospital Gowns On FIRE

        Originally posted by cjppjc View Post
        “Limited benefits aren’t right for everyone, and it clearly wasn’t right for Mr. Yurdin,” said Cynthia B. Michener, an Aetna spokeswoman.


        Priceless.....:mad:
        But just right for Aetna.

        Comment


        • #5
          Re: Hospital Gowns On FIRE

          "At St. David’s Medical Center in Austin, where he went for two separate heart procedures last year, the hospital’s admitting office looked at Mr. Yurdin’s coverage and talked to Aetna. St. David’s estimated that his share of the payments would be only a few thousand dollars per procedure."

          Looks like the admitting office was fooled too, GRG55. . .

          Then again, the only thing equal to a wall st. banker is an insurance "specialist." I guess there are still folks out there who don't realize they are dealing with criminals.

          Comment


          • #6
            Re: Hospital Gowns On FIRE

            Hey I have an idea.

            I am going to sell insurance, the type does not matter much.

            I will sell as much as I can as fast as I can.

            Then, I won't pay - sorry - insert legal language in the 509 pages policy that says I won't pay.

            Do you think I can make money? AIG and Aetna certainly agree.

            (Thanks for posting Don, you just ruined my Canada day )

            Comment


            • #7
              Re: Hospital Gowns On FIRE

              Originally posted by KGW View Post
              "At St. David’s Medical Center in Austin, where he went for two separate heart procedures last year, the hospital’s admitting office looked at Mr. Yurdin’s coverage and talked to Aetna. St. David’s estimated that his share of the payments would be only a few thousand dollars per procedure."

              Looks like the admitting office was fooled too, GRG55. . .

              Then again, the only thing equal to a wall st. banker is an insurance "specialist." I guess there are still folks out there who don't realize they are dealing with criminals.
              The article implies that, but it doesn't actually SAY that...

              Comment


              • #8
                Re: Hospital Gowns On FIRE

                The hospital representative talked to Aetna, before estimating to Mr. Yurdin that his costs would be a few thousand. They based that information on their discussion with Aetna.

                Clearly the hospital did not get the real story from Aetna, so it's clear that Aetna never told the hospital about the fine print in the policy and assured them that the procedures were covered.

                Hospitals and doctors do not voluntarily provide free medical care (which they did in this case, since Mr. Yrdin filed for bankruptcy). Hospitals don't provide services for not-immedialtely life-threatening problems, unles they know they'll be paid, either by insurance or the patient directly.

                I hope the hospital sues Aetna, they were clearly deceptive, both to Mr. Yurdin and the hospital.

                It's a sad day when insurance companies think they can get away with this and people need to hire lawyers to read the very fine print, to make sure they have the coverage that their policy appears to offer.

                Comment


                • #9
                  Re: Hospital Gowns On FIRE

                  Originally posted by World Traveler View Post
                  The hospital representative talked to Aetna, before estimating to Mr. Yurdin that his costs would be a few thousand. They based that information on their discussion with Aetna.

                  Clearly the hospital did not get the real story from Aetna, so it's clear that Aetna never told the hospital about the fine print in the policy and assured them that the procedures were covered.

                  ...
                  How do you KNOW this? It's certainly possible, but I would argue that it is not in Aetna's interest to mislead hospitals. What benefit would Aetna derive from doing so?

                  Once again I get the distinct impression that the whole story is not being told here...

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Re: Hospital Gowns On FIRE

                    Grg55,

                    No one except all the parties involved know the complete and unvarnished truth of this sad saga.

                    But it DOES APPEAR that Aetna never told the hospital representative that the policy only covered hospital board, and not the surgical procedures.

                    Because, in America, the hospital would not have performed the surgery otherwise, unless the patient agreed to cover their costs directly, before the operation took place.

                    In the U.S., hospitals are only required by law to provide immediate service, irregardless of payment situation, if the patient will die soon, (like now, today, tomorrow). Hospitals routinely turn away patients who have no means to pay for services (own means or insurance), unless it is the county (i.e. charity) hospital or the emergency room.

                    A friend of the family had cancer and had a situation similar to Mr. Yurdin's, since she was an independent contractor. She had a high limit credit card and charged the $30,000 for the operation (in 1995) to her credit card, before they would operate.

                    WT

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Re: Hospital Gowns On FIRE

                      Originally posted by LargoWinch View Post
                      Hey I have an idea.

                      I am going to sell insurance, the type does not matter much.

                      I will sell as much as I can as fast as I can.

                      Then, I won't pay - sorry - insert legal language in the 509 pages policy that says I won't pay.

                      Do you think I can make money? AIG and Aetna certainly agree.

                      (Thanks for posting Don, you just ruined my Canada day )
                      Reminds me of the M. Python skit "The Bishop" where Michael Palin's slimy insurance agent tells a vicar that his policy specifically states that "any claim you make will not be paid." Life imitating art.
                      Outside of a dog, a book is man's best friend. Inside of a dog, it's too dark to read. -Groucho

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Re: Hospital Gowns On FIRE

                        National Health Care Spending http://www.nchc.org/facts/cost.shtml
                        • In 2008, health care spending in the United States reached $2.4 trillion, and was projected to reach $3.1 trillion in 2012.1 Health care spending is projected to reach $4.3 trillion by 2016.1
                        • Health care spending is 4.3 times the amount spent on national defense.3
                        • In 2008, the United States will spend 17 percent of its gross domestic product (GDP) on health care. It is projected that the percentage will reach 20 percent by 2017.1
                        • Although nearly 46 million Americans are uninsured, the United States spends more on health care than other industrialized nations, and those countries provide health insurance to all their citizens.3
                        • Health care spending accounted for 10.9 percent of the GDP in Switzerland, 10.7 percent in Germany, 9.7 percent in Canada and 9.5 percent in France, according to the Organization for Economic Cooperation and Development.4
                        Whether or not life expectancy is the best or even a good indication of the quality of healthcare in a country, I don't know, but according to https://www.cia.gov/library/publicat.../2102rank.html the US at number 50 on the list way outranks Swaziland at 224. What's important is that the US in not last.
                        Jim 69 y/o

                        "...Texans...the lowest form of white man there is." Robert Duvall, as Al Sieber, in "Geronimo." (see "Location" for examples.)

                        Dedicated to the idea that all people deserve a chance for a healthy productive life. B&M Gates Fdn.

                        Good judgement comes from experience; experience comes from bad judgement. Unknown.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Re: Hospital Gowns On FIRE

                          Originally posted by Jim Nickerson View Post
                          National Health Care Spending http://www.nchc.org/facts/cost.shtml
                          • In 2008, health care spending in the United States reached $2.4 trillion, and was projected to reach $3.1 trillion in 2012.1 Health care spending is projected to reach $4.3 trillion by 2016.1
                          • Health care spending is 4.3 times the amount spent on national defense.3
                          • In 2008, the United States will spend 17 percent of its gross domestic product (GDP) on health care. It is projected that the percentage will reach 20 percent by 2017.1
                          • Although nearly 46 million Americans are uninsured, the United States spends more on health care than other industrialized nations, and those countries provide health insurance to all their citizens.3
                          • Health care spending accounted for 10.9 percent of the GDP in Switzerland, 10.7 percent in Germany, 9.7 percent in Canada and 9.5 percent in France, according to the Organization for Economic Cooperation and Development.4
                          Whether or not life expectancy is the best or even a good indication of the quality of healthcare in a country, I don't know, but according to https://www.cia.gov/library/publicat.../2102rank.html the US at number 50 on the list way outranks Swaziland at 224. What's important is that the US in not last.
                          But difficult not to notice that the comparisons cited [Switzerland, Germany, Canada and France] all have somewhat longer life expectancies than the USA.

                          I made a similar observation on another thread quite some time ago and another iTuliper responded that the US statistics were skewed by "all the illegals". Not sure I believe that. But I do believe that Canada's stats are skewed [underestimated] because they probably don't pick up Canadians seeking private health care services in the USA, and now elsewhere, to avoid frequent long wait times for many procedures.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Re: Hospital Gowns On FIRE

                            deleted . . . somebody already said what I said
                            raja
                            Boycott Big Banks • Vote Out Incumbents

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Re: Hospital Gowns On FIRE

                              Any way you try and rationalize and slice it, this is mostly about deception. The insurance companies know good and well that people don't pay into insurance thinking they'll get just room and board covered and not much else. They are counting on people not reading the policy carefully. This has become the American way. If you can't make an honest buck, then make it by fooling people. I agree there may be more to the story, but the fact is, if our elected officials were doing their jobs this kind of chicanery wouldn't even be possible. People should be able to have a REASONABLE expectation that their insurance company isn't out to screw them. They shouldn't have to search policies for exclusions that allow them to. American companies are becoming less and less able to compete on a fair and level playing field, so expect to see more of this crap.

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