Joe 6 Pack wakes up

[Quincy K]

Re: Joe 6 Pack wakes up

But being "educated" doesn't necessarily mean one has a basic better understanding of what's going on.



If not having the solution discredited us, we'd all be worthless.

"uneducated" or "educated", this is the kind of guy you want to stay as far away from as possible especially if we encounter 25 percent U-3, as forecasted by iTulip. There is a very good chance you will eventually read about this type of individual in the news.

In the obituary section.

And when an individual like this goes Ka-Poom, you want to be nowhere near him when it happens.

[ThePythonicCow]

Re: Joe 6 Pack wakes up

"uneducated" or "educated", this is the kind of guy you want to stay as far away from as possible ...

Speak for yourself. I'd have to know him personally to decide that for myself. At least he has a cluebat.

This is unlike others, such as most of our financial and political leaders, whom I already know I do not want to meet personally.

[Jim]

Re: Joe 6 Pack wakes up

There is a very good chance you will eventually read about this type of individual in the news.

In the obituary section.

And when an individual like this goes Ka-Poom, you want to be nowhere near him when it happens.

Exactly. This guy and his ilk will be the catalyst for change, good or bad. While the rest of us "educated" continue to pontificate and complain.

[flintlock]

Re: Joe 6 Pack wakes up

Yep, like it or not, people like that guy are the ones who just might make a difference, while those of us who feel safe, superior, or "above" that type of behavior, sit around typing on internet forums, day by day watching the government cut another sliver of flesh off our hides. I also thought this guy really did "get it". His method is just to get your attention. Good showmanship.

[Crazyfingers]

Re: Joe 6 Pack wakes up

Contemplating ol bat boy vs chinese trinkets, I remembered this quote.


"The few who understand the system will be so interested in its profits, the rest so dependent on it's favors, that there will be no opposition from either class." -Rothschild Brothers of London, 1863


The quoted statement is so incredibly true and simplistic, I wonder at what point do we stand up against it? Or do people just go on trying to profit from it and enjoying the favors?

Me thinks at some point we all have to grab baseball bats. Out of respect for the founding fathers of the United States of America and dignity for our children.

[Ghent12]

Re: Joe 6 Pack wakes up

"uneducated" or "educated", this is the kind of guy you want to stay as far away from as possible especially if we encounter 25 percent U-3, as forecasted by iTulip. There is a very good chance you will eventually read about this type of individual in the news.

In the obituary section.

And when an individual like this goes Ka-Poom, you want to be nowhere near him when it happens.

Maybe he should be "educated" in the same school of thought that brought us to Ka-Poom, so that he could be quietly sitting on the sofa drinking a beer every night, paying for WWE Pay-Per-View wrestling with his credit card and trying to forget about the mortgage payment. Stop your elitist bullshit.

Yeah, I'll take an exciting redneck over a Keynesian any day.

[BrianL]

Re: Joe 6 Pack wakes up

Oh my, there could be more women working than men? What ever will we do?

Complain about how many layoffs there are and then about the fact that there is construction picking up again? One or the other is going to happen.

Talk about individual value going down, individuals invested in inflated stocks, and then rant about pumping the stock market up for insiders? Again, you can't fix both.

Complain about North Korea while at the same time complaining about giving money to friendly countries in the area.

Complain about the results of free trade while arguing for less regulation and interference.

Keep addressing 'the people' as if they were all the innocents; ignore the fact that 'the people' are the ones who borrowed money at the cost of their own future. Who are they going to riot against, their neighbor?

Yes, he makes an exciting presentation. And other than shock value for people who haven't been exposed to this stuff, I don't think it has much value. For that anger to be of make change, it needs to get behind policies and accept the results. Or it needs to take on the media and demand real assessments of where we are. Right now he seems unwilling to accept any down side from the peak during the bubble.

[ricket]

Re: Joe 6 Pack wakes up

Keep addressing 'the people' as if they were all the innocents; ignore the fact that 'the people' are the ones who borrowed money at the cost of their own future. Who are they going to riot against, their neighbor?

Those who blame "the people for taking out loans they could not afford" piss me right off.

Your limited intellectual capacity to understand the real nature of why people cannot pay off loans should never give you permission to belittle those who are just as guilty of ignorance as you. Because if you understood the nature of our financial system and why people *actually* cannot pay off loans, no matter how hard they work, then you would keep your mouth shut and not make such ignorant statements.

Just because you have been able to pay off your loans in the current financial system doesnt make you a righteous hard worker, it makes you lucky. You better tread carefully when you start confusing the two. Because I can prove you wrong that everyone could pay off their loans if they wanted. I can show you it's mathematically impossible. You just got lucky you werent in the I/(P+I) people who are forced into default.

[vanvaley1]

Re: Joe 6 Pack wakes up

I don't 'hold harmless' some of the J6P's that got these 'sleazy' loans. The wife qualified some folks but told them they could not get a loan based on their income. They went elsewhere, got the loan, and subsequently lost the house.

But a chunk of them and others can be 'held harmless' as they didn't know the nature of the machinations of RMBSs, CDOs, CDSs, etc. that was going on in Wall Street and the possible consequences of this misrepresentation, deceit, and fraud. Had they know the possible consequences of this type of 'business' tranaction and the nature of the process of packaging and marketing these loans, I'd lay ya odds that they would not have looked at or participated in the assortment of 'smorgasbord' loans available from Alan's 'EZ Credit Fedmobil'. Ya know, the one without brakes and whose windows were 'cleaned' by Media Mary who had just finished her mud wrestling bout with Agnes the Insurance Guru. Disclosure is in the eyes of the beholder...unless they pluck out his eyes.

[BrianL]

Re: Joe 6 Pack wakes up

Wait a moment, I'm not attempting to belittle J6P (which is a belittling label in and of itself).

I do believe that along with corporate accountability, personal accountability has to come in to play at some point.

Ignore the bigger picture for a moment. There were plenty of people gambling on house flipping, on property values always going up (taking out loans knowing they would have to sell in 5 years or wouldn't be able to make payments), etc. Massive gambling/risk taking.

People were signing contracts, putting themselves hundreds of thousands of dollars (or millions of dollars) in debt on a gamble. I have a very hard time saying that people who did this are entirely innocent. The thing is, some of these people are J6Ps themselves (or their neighbors). I think this is part of the reason the rioting people here are waiting for won't happen on a large scale.

Yes, it was a bubble and it was predestined to blow up at some point. Politicians, corporations, etc should be held accountable for their part. The system is flawed. I'm not arguing against any of that. But what new system can be built without making individuals accountable for their personal choices?

[grapejelly]

Re: Joe 6 Pack wakes up

It all starts with unlimited fiat money provided by the central bank. This is quite rotten at the core, literally. It drives all else.

Where is the true accountability there?

[radon]

Re: Joe 6 Pack wakes up

It all starts with unlimited fiat money provided by the central bank. This is quite rotten at the core, literally. It drives all else.

Where is the true accountability there?

How about not borrowing money. Live in a modest apartment and drive a 15 year old Honda like I did for years. I guess self reliance and personal accountability doesn't exist in CA. Sorry, the ants are done feeding the crickets.

http://www.dilbert.com/2009-06-26/

[radon]

Re: Joe 6 Pack wakes up

Wait a moment, I'm not attempting to belittle J6P (which is a belittling label in and of itself).

I do believe that along with corporate accountability, personal accountability has to come in to play at some point.

Ignore the bigger picture for a moment. There were plenty of people gambling on house flipping, on property values always going up (taking out loans knowing they would have to sell in 5 years or wouldn't be able to make payments), etc. Massive gambling/risk taking.

People were signing contracts, putting themselves hundreds of thousands of dollars (or millions of dollars) in debt on a gamble. I have a very hard time saying that people who did this are entirely innocent. The thing is, some of these people are J6Ps themselves (or their neighbors). I think this is part of the reason the rioting people here are waiting for won't happen on a large scale.

Yes, it was a bubble and it was predestined to blow up at some point. Politicians, corporations, etc should be held accountable for their part. The system is flawed. I'm not arguing against any of that. But what new system can be built without making individuals accountable for their personal choices?

The level of fraud in many places is pretty astounding. Its hard to cheat an honest man. Many of these guys thought they were working the system and then became angry when it turned out the reverse was true. Being coned by your target can't be much fun.

If you haven't yet you should read The Confidence Man by Melville. It is both entertaining and illuminating.

[Ghent12]

Re: Joe 6 Pack wakes up

How about not borrowing money. Live in a modest apartment and drive a 15 year old Honda like I did for years. I guess self reliance and personal accountability doesn't exist in CA. Sorry, the ants are done feeding the crickets.

http://www.dilbert.com/2009-06-26/

Right, except you'd be a sucker to not buy into the real estate bu--err, market. Housing prices only ever go up, and you'll double your money in a few years! Everyone else is doing it!

[grapejelly]

Re: Joe 6 Pack wakes up

How about not borrowing money. Live in a modest apartment and drive a 15 year old Honda like I did for years. I guess self reliance and personal accountability doesn't exist in CA. Sorry, the ants are done feeding the crickets.

http://www.dilbert.com/2009-06-26/

Yes, but it is irrational if everyone else is doing it, not to do it also.

If everyone is borrowing money and buying assets that are appreciating, what is the argument for not doing it?

You just don't want to be holding the bag when it suddenly ends.

That is the truth: it is completely rational to behave this way and actually irrational not to.

I'm not saying that it is right or wrong. But if you can "option" a property for next to nothing, walk away if it goes south and pocket huge cash-on-cash returns, why wouldn't you do it, especially if "everyone else" is doing ti?

That's why J6P did it, and that's why this isn't his fault. It is the fault of the fiat money system, flat out.

We have to abolish fiat money.