frank rich's great piece on Obama

[Starving Steve]

Re: frank rich's great piece on Obama

1st, kick back, relax, have a sip of red wine and let that blood pressure drop a bit.

Ok, this really isn't rocket science. It's pretty straight forward. Orient your house right, ie least amount of surface area to the cold (north, west), most area to the south. Much glass to the south, little on north. Much, much insulation, including insulated drapes on all glass. Thermal mass! As much as possible.

Here's a link to a house wich is very similar to mine, except mine is a simple ranch and I used ICF's (insulated concrete forms) for the walls instead of SIP's. I have more thermal mass because of the concrete in the walls.
http://www.greenbuildingadvisor.com/...t-home-vermont

I live at 8600' in the Mnts. Here's a link to what my temperatures are like, except you need to subtract about 5 degrees across all seasons.
http://www.wunderground.com/NORMS/Di...=none&IATA=LAR

My weather station only registers to -40F wind chills and then it displays ---. We probably get 25 days a winter where all I see is ---. We expect 50 mph winds almost every day in the winter, 70 mph winds at least once a week, 80 mph about every other week, and 90 mph once a month.

If you walked in my 1800'^2 house, the only thing you would notice that is different is the stained concrete floor, and the walls are a foot thick. The ceiling is R40, walls are R25. The floor is 4" concrete, resting on 12" sand, all resting on 2" of Styrofoam insulation with radiant heat hoses sandwiched between the sand and concrete and connected to 96' ^2 of thermal solar panels mounted on the roof. I also have 80' ^2 of passive solar on the south and 32'^2 on the east. I have a 24K BTU propane fireplace (about the equivalent of 2 gas burners on a range) we use for backup heat. I always turn the fireplace off at night before I go to bed.

There's absolutely nothing custom or exotic about the place and the energy features add maybe 5-10% to the cost. It's all off the shelf materials and construction techniques. Anyone can do something similar, anywhere in the country, and certainly get better performance than in my harsh conditions. All you need to do is, really think about energy and the local conditions before designing the place. A few minor changes in building codes, requiring orientation, insulation, glass placement, and thermal mass, and all new construction could quickly become 40% more efficient than existing construction.

As far as electrical, 1.2KW of photovoltaics and a 400W wind generator provide 98% of my electrical. Energy efficient appliances and CFL's and it's no problem.

As far as large scale wind, 70 miles to the northwest is a 150 MW wind farm, 40 miles to the southeast is another 100 MW, and starting next year, they're going to build another 150 MW farm 5 miles to the north. Somebody must be making some money!

When people say solar and wind aren't practical, I'm afraid I just have a hard time believing it.

Thank you for your rather complete answer which gives me a lot more information to go by.

I think your success with alternative energy is due to your location in Wyoming where the wind blows at hurricane force, day and nite, almost without end. So your windmill has to produce plenty of power. But most places in the world rarely have wind, especially not wind at hurricane force.

I would be interested to know the cost of your windmill's upkeep, especially in Wyoming where windmills really spin fast and without stop.

You also had the common-sense to orient your house to the south and to put large windows on the southside of your house, and small windows on the northside. You also use thermal drapes and had the good sense to make your floor dark. This captures the greenhouse effect, and good for you!

You also had the common-sense to insulate the hell out of your house. This helps keep energy loss as low as possible.

What did all this cost you to do in Larime?

I have double insulated my log home in East Sooke, and the costs were not cheap. I have stuffed bats of insulation into the basement, and that helped emensely. But still, even with the house much more liveable and draft-free, I burn four cord of cedar each winter to keep the house at 72F in the day and 66F at nite.

I think you an I are basically in agreement except that I would call your strategy in Wyoming common-sense. Wind works in Wyoming and insulation always pays a dividend. Orienting a house to face the south is just good design. Thermal drapes are always worth hanging.;)

[mememonkey]

Re: frank rich's great piece on Obama

Please folks don't get Starving Steve worked up about the environment, He was clearly abused as a child by smokey the bear or Al Gore.

It true alt energy doesn't have the density to replace even a small portion of fossil fuels, but it is part of the equation in our low energy future. and yes passive solar is worth a retrofit.

[jimmygu3]

Re: frank rich's great piece on Obama

There's a difference between being practical for a few and practical for most.

Are you suggesting we all throw out all our houses and build as you have done? That sure sounds energy efficient :rolleyes:.

No, he's saying that building codes could require new construction to be more energy efficient. And the rest of us can, depending on our situations, add some more insulation, thermal drapes, insulated windows, storm windows, solar panels or wind turbines.

[santafe2]

Re: frank rich's great piece on Obama

1st, kick back, relax, have a sip of red wine and let that blood pressure drop a bit.

Ok, this really isn't rocket science. It's pretty straight forward. Orient your house right, ie least amount of surface area to the cold (north, west), most area to the south. Much glass to the south, little on north. Much, much insulation, including insulated drapes on all glass. Thermal mass! As much as possible.

Here's a link to a house wich is very similar to mine, except mine is a simple ranch and I used ICF's (insulated concrete forms) for the walls instead of SIP's. I have more thermal mass because of the concrete in the walls.

I live at 8600' in the Mnts. Here's a link to what my temperatures are like, except you need to subtract about 5 degrees across all seasons.

My weather station only registers to -40F wind chills and then it displays ---. We probably get 25 days a winter where all I see is ---. We expect 50 mph winds almost every day in the winter, 70 mph winds at least once a week, 80 mph about every other week, and 90 mph once a month.

If you walked in my 1800'^2 house, the only thing you would notice that is different is the stained concrete floor, and the walls are a foot thick. The ceiling is R40, walls are R25. The floor is 4" concrete, resting on 12" sand, all resting on 2" of Styrofoam insulation with radiant heat hoses sandwiched between the sand and concrete and connected to 96' ^2 of thermal solar panels mounted on the roof. I also have 80' ^2 of passive solar on the south and 32'^2 on the east. I have a 24K BTU propane fireplace (about the equivalent of 2 gas burners on a range) we use for backup heat. I always turn the fireplace off at night before I go to bed.

There's absolutely nothing custom or exotic about the place and the energy features add maybe 5-10% to the cost. It's all off the shelf materials and construction techniques. Anyone can do something similar, anywhere in the country, and certainly get better performance than in my harsh conditions. All you need to do is, really think about energy and the local conditions before designing the place. A few minor changes in building codes, requiring orientation, insulation, glass placement, and thermal mass, and all new construction could quickly become 40% more efficient than existing construction.

As far as electrical, 1.2KW of photovoltaics and a 400W wind generator provide 98% of my electrical. Energy efficient appliances and CFL's and it's no problem.

As far as large scale wind, 70 miles to the northwest is a 150 MW wind farm, 40 miles to the southeast is another 100 MW, and starting next year, they're going to build another 150 MW farm 5 miles to the north. Somebody must be making some money!

When people say solar and wind aren't practical, I'm afraid I just have a hard time believing it.

Thanks toast. This is a more complete argument than I've been willing to offer. Thermal defense is everything. As we wind down our dependence on super cheap ancient sun energy we should all be building/retrofitting as if energy was truly expensive. It won't be so long before it is. In my wife's business, we're currently designing/building as if oil is $1,000 a barrel and all other traditional energy will follow in cost. I've no interest in energy as a political argument, the BTU outcome appears sure to me. Thanks for offering your detail. I'll take the time to do the same when I've more time and patience.

[ThePythonicCow]

Re: frank rich's great piece on Obama

No, he's saying that building codes could require new construction to be more energy efficient. And the rest of us can, depending on our situations, add some more insulation, thermal drapes, insulated windows, storm windows, solar panels or wind turbines.

Ah - ok. I misunderstood the incomplete snippets I read. I'll agree with what you say. Indeed, having just purchased a newly constructed cheap "cookie-cutter" residence, I am now substantially upgrading its thermal efficiency -- which for my situation means more roof and window stuff to keep out the Texas heat, and a solar powered attic fan.

[doom&gloom]

Re: frank rich's great piece on Obama

We do not need a new political party. We need a new government. And, I do not see why a revolution is necessary to accomplish that. We can have one government that collects bonars, and one that... well heck, we could model it after the Constitution and the Bill of Rights and use real money. One government will continue to f*** us daily, and one could be there to provide for the common good. Eventually, one will die from neglect.

We are all entitled to our fantasies.

Yup. We moved from Bush II to Bush III with the Kleptocrat-in-Chief Obama.