Iran election crisis...

[flintlock]

Re: Iran election crisis...

Iyamwhutiam, what was your point again? I kind of lost it in all the quotations going back and forth. If the point is Westerners suck and are immoral and evil then I agree with you, only I'd change in from "Westerners" to "Man in general ". People have been doing this kind of stuff to each other since the beginning of time, and I'm pretty sure American wasn't even around then. History shows again and again when men get absolute power sooner or later they use it in a bad way. Regardless of where they come from.

Do too many people go along with this evil behavior? Hell yes they do. These bastards couldn't pull it off if they didn't. I think people in general are basically very selfish and will rationalize away most moral arguments if they are getting what they want. But show me an example of another large powerful benevolent nation in history that avoided the same pitfalls the US is sinking into today. Power corrupts. Its the natural progression of man. I'm a rabid historian. If you think things are bad now, you'd be shocked at how horrible it used to be.

[Raz]

Re: Iran election crisis...

George Bush's administration elected solidly by the Christian-right from the South and the Midwaste had no moral problem whatsoever leaving fifty million people in America without access to healthcare. That whole bunch of religious Republicans from the hinterland had no moral problem whatsoever in mocking and ignoring the needs of fifty million people in America.... I will never forget that fact of life during the eight years of George Bush, nor should you.

Joseph Stalin was an atheist who murdered 20,000,000 of his own people so I'm not forgetting what god-hating atheists have done.

I'm not aware of the "Christian-right" mocking anyone who doesn't have medical insurance - or doesn't have perfect eyesight, or a Lexus 450, or any of the other jabberwockey nonsense that you dream up.

I'm not a Republican of any stripe, but I'll take them before the baby-murdering Left any day of the week.

I think you have a severe case of Cerebroserpentitis ("snakes-in-the-head").

[Starving Steve]

Re: Iran election crisis...

Joseph Stalin was an atheist who murdered 20,000,000 of his own people so I'm not forgetting what god-hating atheists have done.

I'm not aware of the "Christian-right" mocking anyone who doesn't have medical insurance - or doesn't have perfect eyesight, or a Lexus 450, or any of the other jabberwockey nonsense that you dream up.

I'm not a Republican of any stripe, but I'll take them before the baby-murdering Left any day of the week.

I think you have a severe case of Cerebroserpentitis ("snakes-in-the-head").

During the Bush years, FOX News talked down to those fifty million who were shut-out of the American healthcare system. Hannity and O'Reily and Glenn Beck would suggest that those without health insurance could just go and buy it--- as if they could write a cheque each month for $600 for insurance. These characters would suggest that those without health insurance didn't want to work or they were irresponsible. Or these FOX personalities would suggest that many of those without health insurance were illegal aliens...... I remember what was said practically every night on FOX, and so should you.

Even to-day, the Republicans in the U.S. Congress are doing everything they can to try to kill national health insurance.

You need to remember that the cost of providing private health insurance to workers in America is one of the major reasons why many companies have moved jobs out of the country. The cost of private health insurance is one of the major reasons why Detroit's auto industry is bankrupt.

You Republicans never fail to amaze me. At least Obama is going to bring in some kind of major health reform to the United States, a reform half-a- century over-due.

Finally on Stalin, many of those he killed were sympathisers and collaborators with the nazis. This is not to excuse all of Stalin's crimes, but to compare Stalin with Adolf Hitler is just rightwing nonsense coming from the Republican Party in the U.S...... Stalin liberated Eastern Europe and won the Sword of Honour from King George VI for doing so. I have the films of that liberation in my library.

And you mention the words "baby murdering": Shall we talk about the murder of Witchita, Kansas's abortion doctor in the town's Lutheran Church last month? He was shot and killed inside the church while at worship. Here is the link:

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn...053101181.html

[Ghent12]

Re: Iran election crisis...

During the Bush years, FOX News talked down to those fifty million who were shut-out of the American healthcare system. Hannity and O'Reily and Glenn Beck would suggest that those without health insurance could just go and buy it--- as if they could write a cheque each month for $600 for insurance. These characters would suggest that those without health insurance didn't want to work or they were irresponsible. Or these FOX personalities would suggest that many of those without health insurance were illegal aliens...... I remember what was said practically every night on FOX, and so should you.

Even to-day, the Republicans in the U.S. Congress are doing everything they can to try to kill national health insurance.

You need to remember that the cost of providing private health insurance to workers in America is one of the major reasons why many companies have moved jobs out of the country. The cost of private health insurance is one of the major reasons why Detroit's auto industry is bankrupt.

You Republicans never fail to amaze me. At least Obama is going to bring in some kind of major health reform to the United States, a reform half-a- century over-due.

Finally on Stalin, many of those he killed were sympathisers and collaborators with the nazis. This is not to excuse all of Stalin's crimes, but to compare Stalin with Adolf Hitler is just rightwing nonsense coming from the Republican Party in the U.S...... Stalin liberated Eastern Europe and won the Sword of Honour from King George VI for doing so. I have the films of that liberation in my library.

And you mention the words "baby murdering": Shall we talk about the murder of Witchita, Kansas's abortion doctor in the town's Lutheran Church last month? He was shot and killed inside the church while at worship.

Argh, this entire site is so disappointing. First time I come here, I learn of the existence of the FIRE economy and all the upcoming problems. Now I see many of my favorite posters losing their ethos like it is going out of style. I'm referring to you, of course.

You're trying to use impression as empiric evidence, and you have thus lost all credibility with me. Some key points:
1) Fox News' newest demagogue arrived in October 2008, the very tail end of the Bush years.
2) You simultaneously try to excuse some of Stalin's crimes while saying that you are not excusing his crimes.
3) Comparing institutionalized and legal violence against unborn humans to an ideologically-driven act of murder is an absurd comparison. In fairness to you, the original charge against you was a blanket statement; you just failed to rise above it and instead dove right under it...

Meanwhile, back in Iran, it's like the advertisement for Alien Vs. Predator. Whoever Wins, We Lose. We could mean the Iranian people (though that is rather presumptuous of me), the American people (slightly less presumptuous), or the world at large (not presumptuous at all).

[metalman]

Re: Iran election crisis...

Meanwhile, back in Iran, it's like the advertisement for Alien Vs. Predator. Whoever Wins, We Lose. We could mean the Iranian people (though that is rather presumptuous of me), the American people (slightly less presumptuous), or the world at large (not presumptuous at all).

agree 100%. the naivete re the outcome of a rebellion there is jaw dropping. look how well the last revolution turned out. the country was moving gradually toward constructive change... the only way it ever happens for the good... when the iraq war emboldened the hard liners and derailed it.

[Starving Steve]

Re: Iran election crisis...

Argh, this entire site is so disappointing. First time I come here, I learn of the existence of the FIRE economy and all the upcoming problems. Now I see many of my favorite posters losing their ethos like it is going out of style. I'm referring to you, of course.

You're trying to use impression as empiric evidence, and you have thus lost all credibility with me. Some key points:
1) Fox News' newest demagogue arrived in October 2008, the very tail end of the Bush years.
2) You simultaneously try to excuse some of Stalin's crimes while saying that you are not excusing his crimes.
3) Comparing institutionalized and legal violence against unborn humans to an ideologically-driven act of murder is an absurd comparison. In fairness to you, the original charge against you was a blanket statement; you just failed to rise above it and instead dove right under it...

Meanwhile, back in Iran, it's like the advertisement for Alien Vs. Predator. Whoever Wins, We Lose. We could mean the Iranian people (though that is rather presumptuous of me), the American people (slightly less presumptuous), or the world at large (not presumptuous at all).

Isn't Dr. Tiller's life worth atleast one fetus? He was shot and killed on May 31st while working as an usher in his church. The story is that he was walking into the church.

Dr. Tiller had provided a service to women in his community for years. Dead now, he leaves an entire family and a community who will mourne (sp?) his loss.

As for the lies about Joseph Stalin, they began with the John Birch Society in the United States, especially after the book None Dare Call It Treason was published during the Cold War. Since that book came out, the lies have only become more outrageous and now are passed-off as truth through the Republican Party and the NRA.

Unfortunately, I grew up in America during the Cold War, and I saw how this revision of history took place. The rightwing grew and grew with lie after lie about everything until they came to power and controlled the country..... I have watched the country go down the drain ever since until finally the first sign of a revolt against the rightwing happened with the election of Obama last November.

[metalman]

Re: Iran election crisis...

As for the lies about Joseph Stalin,

must be the only forum on earth has it's own stalin fan!

:p:p:p

[Raz]

Re: Iran election crisis...

Starving Steve wrote: "You Republicans never fail to amaze me. At least Obama is going to bring in some kind of major health reform to the United States, a reform half-a- century over-due.

Finally on Stalin, many of those he killed were sympathisers and collaborators with the nazis. This is not to excuse all of Stalin's crimes, but to compare Stalin with Adolf Hitler is just rightwing nonsense coming from the Republican Party in the U.S...... Stalin liberated Eastern Europe and won the Sword of Honour from King George VI for doing so. I have the films of that liberation in my library.

And you mention the words "baby murdering": Shall we talk about the murder of Witchita, Kansas's abortion doctor in the town's Lutheran Church last month? He was shot and killed inside the church while at worship."

"You Republicans". Well, once again Steve, I am NOT a Republican.
Of course you don't let facts get in the way of any "point" you feel like making, do you?

Obama is a Euro-type Socialist who will finish off the rest of the American economy that George W. Dumbass didn't wreck. And the "50 million Americans with no health care" is a fabricated number invented by those who are determined to socialize American medicine. I'm sympathetic to some changes in the healthcare system in the United States, but giving a blank-check to the political left will most likely ruin it.

You don't know beans about history, Steve. The sword you speak of was the "Sword of Stalingrad" commissioned by George VI and presented to Stalin by Winston Churchill at the close of the Tehran Conference in the Fall of 1943 - more than a year before the Red Army "liberated" Eastern Europe. Take a trip to Czechoslovakia or Poland or Hungary or Romania and ask those people how their parents enjoyed the Soviet "liberation". They hate the Russians more than the Cubans hate us.

Comparing Stalin with Hitler shows that both of them were monsters of the first order. Anyone who says differently is either willfully ignorant of historical fact, or else they are selling something. Try reading Hitler and Stalin: Parallel Lives. Allan Bullock (an Englishman) spent more than 16 years researching the material for this book of over 900 pages. He managed to interview people who knew of Stalin's childhood from those who taught him as well as the few friends he had who manged to survive him. Stalin murdered millions of his own people BEFORE World War II began with the German invasion of Poland. Few men in all of human history have more blood on their hands that Joseph Jughashvili.

As for "Dr." Tiller: Tiller was a monster who perverted his training in the healing arts to become the most highly paid medical hit-man in the United States. He was no better than Joseph Mengele, and to refer to Tiller as a "doctor" is to insult the entire medical profession. There is NO SUCH THING as a "therapeutic" abortion in the third trimester, unless mental depression of the mother is a valid reason to murder a fully viable child who would almost certainly survive induced labor or a Caesarean delivery and live with the help of an incubator.

And are you implying that it was a Christian who shot and killed "Dr." Tiller? I think you would have a hard time finding an orthodox Christian who would say that Scott Roeder was a Christian - unless Roeder himself was allowed to define the term.

[Starving Steve]

Re: Iran election crisis...

Starving Steve wrote: "You Republicans never fail to amaze me. At least Obama is going to bring in some kind of major health reform to the United States, a reform half-a- century over-due.

Finally on Stalin, many of those he killed were sympathisers and collaborators with the nazis. This is not to excuse all of Stalin's crimes, but to compare Stalin with Adolf Hitler is just rightwing nonsense coming from the Republican Party in the U.S...... Stalin liberated Eastern Europe and won the Sword of Honour from King George VI for doing so. I have the films of that liberation in my library.

And you mention the words "baby murdering": Shall we talk about the murder of Witchita, Kansas's abortion doctor in the town's Lutheran Church last month? He was shot and killed inside the church while at worship."

"You Republicans". Well, once again Steve, I am NOT a Republican.
Of course you don't let facts get in the way of any "point" you feel like making, do you?

Obama is a Euro-type Socialist who will finish off the rest of the American economy that George W. Dumbass didn't wreck. And the "50 million Americans with no health care" is a fabricated number invented by those who are determined to socialize American medicine. I'm sympathetic to some changes in the healthcare system in the United States, but giving a blank-check to the political left will most likely ruin it.

You don't know beans about history, Steve. The sword you speak of was the "Sword of Stalingrad" commissioned by George VI and presented to Stalin by Winston Churchill at the close of the Tehran Conference in the Fall of 1943 - more than a year before the Red Army "liberated" Eastern Europe. Take a trip to Czechoslovakia or Poland or Hungary or Romania and ask those people how their parents enjoyed the Soviet "liberation". They hate the Russians more than the Cubans hate us.

Comparing Stalin with Hitler shows that both of them were monsters of the first order. Anyone who says differently is either willfully ignorant of historical fact, or else they are selling something. Try reading Hitler and Stalin: Parallel Lives. Allan Bullock (an Englishman) spent more than 16 years researching the material for this book of over 900 pages. He managed to interview people who knew of Stalin's childhood from those who taught him as well as the few friends he had who manged to survive him. Stalin murdered millions of his own people BEFORE World War II began with the German invasion of Poland. Few men in all of human history have more blood on their hands that Joseph Jughashvili.

As for "Dr." Tiller: Tiller was a monster who perverted his training in the healing arts to become the most highly paid medical hit-man in the United States. He was no better than Joseph Mengele, and to refer to Tiller as a "doctor" is to insult the entire medical profession. There is NO SUCH THING as a "therapeutic" abortion in the third trimester, unless mental depression of the mother is a valid reason to murder a fully viable child who would almost certainly survive induced labor or a Caesarean delivery and live with the help of an incubator.

And are you implying that it was a Christian who shot and killed "Dr." Tiller? I think you would have a hard time finding an orthodox Christian who would say that Scott Roeder was a Christian - unless Roeder himself was allowed to define the term.

If the U.S. has such a great private healthcare system in the world, may I ask a simple question: Why do Americans, especially American males, have the shortest life expectency of any industrial nation in the world to-day? (I just thought I'd ask.):rolleyes:

As for Stalin, his tyranny was horrible. That is a fact. But the tyranny of Stalinism was much less horrible than the tyranny of Adolf Hitler and his nazis. At least with Stalin, you might end-up in a labour camp, but under the nazis you could be exterminated, especially if you were Jewish.

No other monster in world history but Adolf Hitler studied mass extermination and made it into a policy called genocide. Cyanide was his choice of poison because he could kill more people with less money and less time expended.

Stalin wanted work from his enemies: dams, canals, power plants, whatever.... But Hitler wanted death and genocide. Hitler's death camps were all about mass extermination, as efficiently as possible.

The truth about WWII has been neatly doctored by the Republican Party in America. As I said, the doctoring began during the Cold War and to-day is passed-off as historical fact. According to the Repukes, "Stalin was worse than Hitler" and "Stalin killed 20 million people".

The last time I checked, WWII, the war that Hitler wanted killed 52 million people including 25 million people in the USSR. The killing of 25 million people in the USSR was done by the nazis, not Stalin. The butchering of the civilian population in the USSR by the nazis was absolutely horrendous, and I have it all on film in the series, World at War.

[santafe2]

Re: Iran election crisis...

Argh, this entire site is so disappointing. First time I come here, I learn of the existence of the FIRE economy and all the upcoming problems. Now I see many of my favorite posters losing their ethos like it is going out of style. I'm referring to you, of course.

While this thread has been hijacked by the usual suspects, the "entire site" is not this thread. Your favorite posters are not losing their ethos, they are flaunting them. Follow other posters. There are some very smart people here and a lot of us pay to read their ideas.

[Ghent12]

Re: Iran election crisis...

Isn't Dr. Tiller's life worth atleast one fetus? He was shot and killed on May 31st while working as an usher in his church. The story is that he was walking into the church.

Dr. Tiller had provided a service to women in his community for years. Dead now, he leaves an entire family and a community who will mourne (sp?) his loss.

I cannot understand your moral equivalency. Dr. Tiller's killer is not excused from his crime whatsoever. How can you possibly use the murder of an individual as a talking point in support of the murder of another?

Cavemen committed infanticide when they produced more mouths to feed than they could provide food for. We have regressed to that point again, except we do it with a modern twist. It's now preinfanticide. It is still the unnatural, deliberate termination of a human life, aka murder.

Abortion and Stalin in a discussion on Iran... with someone whom, if I could read into your posts a little bit, actually appears to believe that we are not in President Bush's third term.

[Ghent12]

Re: Iran election crisis...

While this thread has been hijacked by the usual suspects, the "entire site" is not this thread. Your favorite posters are not losing their ethos, they are flaunting them. Follow other posters. There are some very smart people here and a lot of us pay to read their ideas.

I have forgotten why you are the only person on my ignore list. Hopefully you will not do anything to remind me.

Anyways, my favorite posters are the ones that post opinions that are different than mine. My new favorite activity is to sharpen my belief structure through challenge. When someone that normally contradicts my opinion in a reasonable way starts to show their true motivation, it leaves a bad smell.

You're right though. I will simply move on and continue my self-education so long as this site provides the means for it

Thanks iTulip.

[santafe2]

Re: Iran election crisis...

I have forgotten why you are the only person on my ignore list. Hopefully you will not do anything to remind me.

Ah, what a cleaver little ruse. Ghent12 the free account is also Raz the paying account. I suppose you'll go out and get another free alias now?! Try not to be so obvious with the 3rd one...or have you already gotten it before the Freds caught you?

BTW, if I was on your ignore list you wouldn't be able to read my posts as I cannot read yours or now your new alias. Take a look in the mirror dude. You've got to get your creepy side under control.

[Guinnesstime]

Re: Iran election crisis...




Careful..... gruesome picture in the link....

http://threatswatch.org/rapidrecon/2...ror-in-tehran/

[Raz]

Re: Iran election crisis...

Ah, what a cleaver little ruse. Ghent12 the free account is also Raz the paying account. I suppose you'll go out and get another free alias now?! Try not to be so obvious with the 3rd one...or have you already gotten it before the Freds caught you?

BTW, if I was on your ignore list you wouldn't be able to read my posts as I cannot read yours or now your new alias. Take a look in the mirror dude. You've got to get your creepy side under control.

Don't flatter yourself, Santa Fe. You're just not that important.

I only have one account - I'm Raz, the guy you went out of your way to insult. And I don't like you one damn bit, but I say what I say right out in the open, so everyone knows who said it.

I don't hide behind any curtain, you jackass.