US$ 134.5 billion seized at Italian Border

[Southernguy]

Re: US$ 134.5 billion seized at Italian Border

On june 15 we wrote what follows. Today it was esentially confirmed. Just a scam, a crude and audacious one. Perpetrators are probably in jail, and shall be for some time.

In my opinion these are fake bonds.
The scam (I went through a similar one years ago) goes as that: One people find a bank which is in a disposition to take as a deposit the assets. As it is a deposit for which the bank is only responsible as a holder of same, no problem. Then they ask the bank to issue some kind of certificate that so and so has deposited in the institution such amount of assets.
With that "certificate" or letter or whatsoever, the scammers go to other bank, probably contact a "friendly" officer and ask a loan guarateed by the huge assets deposited.
Say a "modest" loan....20 million dollars (after all the guarantee is huge)
They probably need a "friendly" officer both in the first and also the second banks.
The scam I knew of involved people assuring they had property papers of land in the amazonia valued at 4 billion usd.
The first officer (I witnessed) politely told them they were not interested in holding the deposit.
End of story.

[D-Mack]

Re: US$ 134.5 billion seized at Italian Border

On june 15 we wrote what follows. Today it was esentially confirmed. Just a scam, a crude and audacious one. Perpetrators are probably in jail, and shall be for some time.

no crime, no jail

More intriguing is a Japanese media report this week that the alleged Japanese bond-smugglers have been released as they “broke no laws”, according to the Mainichi Shimbun, which sent a reporter to the Italian town of Chiasso where the men were arrested by Italian police (hat tip, Clusterstock’s Joe Weisenthal)

http://ftalphaville.ft.com/blog/2009...e-or-are-they/

[prezone]

Re: US$ 134.5 billion seized at Italian Border

Everything suggests that the American bonds seized at Chiasso are real

http://www.asianews.it/index.php?l=e...&theme=&size=A

Official U.S. sources continue to say they are fakes, but there is no news that American experts have inspected them in person. Arrested for another matter, the director of a U.S. radio who says the bonds are real and Japan was trying to sell in Switzerland, not trusting the ability of the United States to honour its debt.


Milan (AsiaNews) – Four weeks have passed since American bonds were confiscated from two Japanese men who were travelling on a direct train to Chiasso, Switzerland, and while there has been clarification of some - very few -points, Italian authorities have remained silent on the rest of the episode.

In addition, a strange coincidence in the timing of the arrest of a director of an internet radio who had made revelations regarding the incident ,increases the already strong oddities surrounding the case. This added to the revaluation of the fact that among the evidence seized there were "Kennedy Bonds", all points toward the authenticity of the items seized by the Guardia di Finanza (GdF) in early June.

The major English-speaking newspapers ignored the story for a couple of weeks. They only started to report on it after the Bloomberg agency carried a story on 18 / 6, in which a spokesman for the Treasury, Meyerhardt, declared that the bonds, based on photos available on the Internet, were "clearly false." The same day, the Financial Times (FT) published an article whose title laid the blame for the (alleged) infringement at the feet of the Italian Mafia, despite the fact that the article failed to make even one possible connection with the episode in Chiasso. Nevertheless, the version of events as reported in FT was taken up by others as being "appropriate" (given that it is a very common cliché about Italy and it is a sequester that took place in Italy) and in the end "colourful." It’s a pity that it goes against all logic: that the Mafia tried to pass unnoticed in its attempt to dump fake bonds amounting to 134.5 billion dollars and moreover were to "stung" a mere step from their gaol, is not very credible.


Most recently last week, 25 / 6, the New York Times reported on the story in particular, the allegations of CIA spokesman, Darrin Blackford: the U.S. Secret Service carried out inspections, as required by the Italian judiciary, and found that they were fictitious financial instruments, never issued by the “U.S. government”. It is not clear, however, how the checks mentioned by Blackford were carried out and whether they were also are carried out via internet. In fact according to official Italian sources the Commission of American experts, expected in Italy, have yet to arrive. Furthermore, the bonds were accompanied by a recent and original bank record. It is therefore unclear how the U.S. authorities can declare fake documentation that does not originate from the Fed or the U.S. Department of Treasury.


On the contrary, claims in support of the bond’s authenticity were made 20 / 6 on the Turner Radio Network (TRN), an independent radio station broadcast via Internet. On that date in a massive exposure, TRN stated that the two Japanese men arrested by the Guardia di Finanza (GdF) and then released in Ponte Chiasso were employees of the Japanese Ministry for Treasury. AsiaNews had also received similar reports: one of the two Japanese arrested in Chiasso and then released is Tuneo Yamauchi, is the brother of Toshiro Muto, until recently vice governor of the Bank of Japan. On its website, the creator and presenter of the Radio, Hal Turner, had also claimed that his sources had revealed that the Italian authorities believe the evidence to be authentic and that the two Japanese officials are from the Japanese Ministry for Finance. They were supposed to bring the bonds to Switzerland because the Japanese government had apparently lost confidence in U.S. ability to repay its debt. Japanese financial authorities therefore were trying to sell a part of the securities in their possession through parallel channels ahead of an imminent financial disaster, thanks to the anonymity which, Turner said, is guaranteed by the laws of Switzerland.


AsiaNews does not know to what extent Turner’s revelations can be held as credible, given that in this case too, it is difficult to believe that $ 134.5 billion would pass unnoticed anywhere in the world. It seems far more logical to assume that the bonds, if authentic, were directed to the Bank for International Settlements in Basel, BIS, the central bank of central banks ahead of the issuance of securities in a new supranational currency. Turner had in any event added that as evidence to support his revelations he would have provided the serial numbers of the seized bonds. Before he could do so, however, was imprisoned. Hal Turner is the journalist who long ago first broke the news of a secret plan to replace the dollar, after a severe financial crisis, with a common North American currency, the Amero. In a dramatic phone call from inside the prison in which he is detained pending trial, relayed via internet, Hal Turner claims that his arrest is political and it is in relation to the securities seized in Chiasso, because the authorities are terrified by his revelations of the bonds’ authenticity. Of course, the allegations made against him have to nothing to do with the story and thus an already intricate story becomes ever more complex. Turner maintains that he did not personally formulate the disclosure for which he has been imprisoned. Although it was clearly his responsibility to remain vigilant, it is also true that blogs from around the world and the U.S. themselves are full of threats and provocations. The coincidental timing, the unusual diligence and the details of his arrest arouse suspicions about the true motives of the American federal police. Indeed, this very arrest suggests that the evidence seized from GdF are truly authentic.


One more element in favour of the bond’s authenticity is found in the securities, which in the June 4 statement, the GdF termed "Kennedy Bonds” with photos provided. These photos reveal that the securities under discussion are not bonds but Treasury Notes, because they are securities that can be immediately exchanged for their worth in goods or services and because they are devoid of interest coupons. One side carries a reproduction of the image of the American president, the reverse side that of a spaceship. From confidential, usually well-informed sources, AsiaNews has learned that this type of paper money was issued less than ten years ago (in 1998), although it is difficult to know whether those seized in Chiasso are authentic. But the fact that the release of this particular State Treasury was not completely in the public domain tends to exclude the possibility of counterfeiting. It highly unreasonable to suppose that a forger would reproduce a State Treasury not commonly in circulation and of which there is no public knowledge. For this reason, it can be concluded that the 124.5 billion dollars divided in 249 bonds of 500 million each are authentic. These titles, although referred to as "Federal Reserve Notes" are actually bonds, because they accrue interest and are redeemable at maturity. But one question remains unsolved regarding them. It is somewhat hard to understand why the securities, which were from the outset indistinguishable from the original to the GdF, all have their coupons. Any ordinary investor, even a state, would have cashed in the interest coupon every year, so as not to lose purchasing power.

[flintlock]

Re: US$ 134.5 billion seized at Italian Border

Everything suggests that the American bonds seized at Chiasso are real

http://www.asianews.it/index.php?l=e...&theme=&size=A

Uh oh, here we go again.

[cjppjc]

Re: US$ 134.5 billion seized at Italian Border

I knew it.



Hal Turner eh......

[FRED]

Re: US$ 134.5 billion seized at Italian Border

"AsiaNews does not know to what extent Turner’s revelations can be held as credible..."

We do. They are not credible.

[ThePythonicCow]

Re: US$ 134.5 billion seized at Italian Border

"AsiaNews does not know to what extent Turner’s revelations can be held as credible..."

We do. They are not credible.

Well, being more of a Tin-Foil-Hat Conspiricist than yourself, your post sent me google'ing around to see who this "Turner" was. The Wikipedia page for Turner says enough to suggest what I've found so far. He is not credible. I'm considering removing the other links I've found from my browser's history, and perhaps scrubbing it out with disinfectant.

P.S. -- Well, one link in my browser history can remain. EJ linked to this same Wikipedia page on April 20, 2009, in the iTulip post Get your money out of your bank (Post #8).

[Chris Coles]

Re: US$ 134.5 billion seized at Italian Border

With the greatest of respects to everyone, the only way to kill this story stone cold is for the Italians to present the documents they hold to a full public scrutiny by a completely independent body. If the documents they hold are indeed completely worthless, then there is no time to lose in opening this right up for public observation. The longer they hold the documents without full public disclosure of what they have seized, the longer this story runs.

So who would be fit for purpose of complete independence? Who can we trust to fill that role? $134.5 billion makes for an awful lot of leverage if someone wanted to cover up the reality. So come on - who should be pressed into service to clear this matter up once and for all?

[ThePythonicCow]

Re: US$ 134.5 billion seized at Italian Border

With the greatest of respects to everyone, the only way to kill this story stone cold is for the Italians to present the documents they hold to a full public scrutiny by a completely independent body.

Neither you nor I have the power to make that happen.

Apparently those who do have the power aren't doing this. They don't report to us. They don't tell us who they are. They don't tell us why they do what they do.

[Chris Coles]

Re: US$ 134.5 billion seized at Italian Border

Neither you nor I have the power to make that happen.

Apparently those who do have the power aren't doing this. They don't report to us. They don't tell us who they are. They don't tell us why they do what they do.

Yes, and that leaves everyone with the thought; that there is no smoke without fire.

If the documents are so much rubbish, then no one could be in the slightest bothered by their full disclosure.

Snif! Snif! .... I smell smoke.

[ThePythonicCow]

Re: US$ 134.5 billion seized at Italian Border

Snif! Snif! .... I smell smoke.

Yeah - me too.

This case has become a Litmus test of ones conspiratorial tendencies.

[FRED]

Re: US$ 134.5 billion seized at Italian Border

With the greatest of respects to everyone, the only way to kill this story stone cold is for the Italians to present the documents they hold to a full public scrutiny by a completely independent body. If the documents they hold are indeed completely worthless, then there is no time to lose in opening this right up for public observation. The longer they hold the documents without full public disclosure of what they have seized, the longer this story runs.

So who would be fit for purpose of complete independence? Who can we trust to fill that role? $134.5 billion makes for an awful lot of leverage if someone wanted to cover up the reality. So come on - who should be pressed into service to clear this matter up once and for all?

But these pretty pieces of paper, which are neither forgeries nor have been proven to be used in the commission of a crime, are the legal private property of the Japanese citizens who held them. They have broken no laws. What right does the anyone have to confiscate them?

[ThePythonicCow]

Re: US$ 134.5 billion seized at Italian Border

Snif! Snif! .... I smell smoke.

On the other hand,

• if the U.S. Treasury actually knows (as indeed it claims it knows) that these Treasuries cannot possibly be legitimate, and
• if the story of these Treasuries being seized is not really causing any substantial pain to the U.S. Treasury (indeed, I see little pain),

then the Treasury would be well advised to downplay their response (just as they have done .)

[Chris Coles]

Re: US$ 134.5 billion seized at Italian Border

But these pretty pieces of paper, which are neither forgeries nor have been proven to be used in the commission of a crime, are the legal private property of the Japanese citizens who held them. They have broken no laws. What right does the anyone have to confiscate them?

Fred, you hit the nail on the head; why would anyone confiscate them? Why not hand the papers back and close the book. But am I wrong to believe that, from all the reports we have seen, that the papers, and the bank account details, remain in the hands of the Italian authorities. or, are you saying that they have been handed back and the case completely closed?

[xela]

Re: US$ 134.5 billion seized at Italian Border

Fred, you hit the nail on the head; why would anyone confiscate them? Why not hand the papers back and close the book. But am I wrong to believe that, from all the reports we have seen, that the papers, and the bank account details, remain in the hands of the Italian authorities. or, are you saying that they have been handed back and the case completely closed?

Latests I read was that the 2 Japanese (aka Philippines or North Koreans) disappeared without trace. Their lawyer had to resign his mandate for lack of contact (or payment).