this just in - hard STOP in CA

[charliebrown]

Re: this just in - hard STOP in CA

I agree with most of what you say. But you are not espousing a hard green mentality. A hard green is opposed to domestic drilling, nuclear, coal etc. I am a soft green, I too run my house at 80 in the summer and 68 in the winter, 65 at night in the winter. I drive a highly fuel efficient car to work, and moved closer to work. Most of my lights are those silly cfl's. But I believe in peak cheap energy. It is comming faster than the alternatives will be available. If we dont keep all of our options open. We'll be taking the bus to work, living in 55 degree houses in the winter and 90 degree houses in the summer. That is what I mean by americans are not ready for that.

I also agree with your comments on too cold indoors in the summer. I worked in Dallas in the summer. Building was sub-70, THI outside was 100+. That's just not healthy. Malls were over airconditioned too.

[Mashuri]

Re: this just in - hard STOP in CA

If there is a natural decline in prices, which makes sense to me in that system, wouldn't people hold their cash and try and wait as long as possible to buy so they can get more for their buck? Hence slowing the growth of the economy?

That would lead to increased savings which, in a true free market economy, would lead to lower interest rates and more -- not less -- investment in capital for future production.

There is the popular inflationist argument that any deflation will lead to "hoarding" and spiral an economy to a halt. That is simply not true (unless it's a sudden deflation from, say, a bubble popping but even that is good in the sense it is correcting a past mistake) and the tech industry is a great example. Even with our current inflation level, production of computers and electronics improve way ahead of the curve. If you wait a year or two, you can get twice the computer for the same money. Based on inflationist logic, the tech industry should fail but it instead flourishes. Natural deflation is a good thing for everyone except governments.

Money supply "growing with the economy" only serves to steal wealth for the people with the printing press.

[rogermexico]

Re: this just in - hard STOP in CA

If there is a natural decline in prices, which makes sense to me in that system, wouldn't people hold their cash and try and wait as long as possible to buy so they can get more for their buck? Hence slowing the growth of the economy?

EDIT - Mashuri is correct - I just read his post

To a point, yes. Think of how you behave in those segments of the economy that already have deflation in the form of productivity gains that exceed the overall CPI. I am guessing you buy a new computer every few years even though you know you get more for your money if you keep waiting. This doesn't seem ot slow the growth of the computer industry. In fact, now that these productivity gains have slowed, people buy new computers less frequently! Isn't this the way it should be? We should consume our money only when the present utility value we get with the purchase exceeds the value it has to us in the future (Austrians call this time preference)

Think of how cool it would be if a $100 dollar bill in your drawer was worth more every year you did not spend it. You could earn a real return without a bank or debt based financial product, and you would have to pay no taxes on the real gain on your savings, as only nominal gains would be taxed.

Do you think this might be why our governments and the banks that own them propagandize about the evils of "deflation"?

Because they cannot earn profits lending money into existence (banks) and taxing us on phantom gains (government)?

[Starving Steve]

Re: this just in - hard STOP in CA

How interesting that the neo-cons forget that Stalin liberated Eastern Europe from the nazis and won the Sword of Honour from King George VI after WWII. Much of the history of WWII was conveniently re-invented by the neo-cons to serve the interest of the Republican Party in America.

[Raz]

Re: this just in - hard STOP in CA

Never for one minute forget that it was the neo-cons (the repukes) who put 2.7 million people in the American gulag---- a prison empire that stretched across the land and onto Cuba too. Never forget that the drug war was really a war on ordinary people; it was an excuse for the gulag to asault the freedom and independence of the American people. Never forget the nightly executions, the military trials, the forced confessions, the secret courts, the secret charges, and the torture techniques.

May I ask the neo-cons: Did Joseph Stalin ever imprison 2.7 million people, even in the darkest days of the Soviet Union?:rolleyes:

Did Stalin launch drug war on his people? What torture techniques did he develope?

Hi, Steve:

Get a paperback copy of Hitler and Stalin: Parallel Lives by Allan Bullock.
Perhaps a little Solzhenitzen will also help clear things up for you.

You will then be embarrased by the statements you just made.

[metalman]

Re: this just in - hard STOP in CA

Never for one minute forget that it was the neo-cons (the repukes) who put 2.7 million people in the American gulag---- a prison empire that stretched across the land and onto Cuba too. Never forget that the drug war was really a war on ordinary people; it was an excuse for the gulag to asault the freedom and independence of the American people. Never forget the nightly executions, the military trials, the forced confessions, the secret courts, the secret charges, and the torture techniques.

May I ask the neo-cons: Did Joseph Stalin ever imprison 2.7 million people, even in the darkest days of the Soviet Union?:rolleyes:

Did Stalin launch drug war on his people? What torture techniques did he develope?

the incredible thing about our time... there has never been more free access to information, yet never less interest in it.

[flintlock]

Re: this just in - hard STOP in CA

How interesting that the neo-cons forget that Stalin liberated Eastern Europe from the nazis and won the Sword of Honour from King George VI after WWII. Much of the history of WWII was conveniently re-invented by the neo-cons to serve the interest of the Republican Party in America.

LOL. Yeah, he "liberated" Eastern Europe. From the frying pan into the fire and back into the frying pan again. Saying he's better than Hitler ain't saying much. And I'm not sure even that statement is true.

[jiimbergin]

Re: this just in - hard STOP in CA

The Red Army LIBERATED Eastern Europe, and don't let any of these rightwingers tell you a different story.

and then turned around and enslaved them:eek:

[flintlock]

Re: this just in - hard STOP in CA

A kinder and gentler tyranny I guess?

But Stalin's tyranny was not the freedom that the people of Eastern Europe had hoped for after WWII.

Yeah, probably a little disappointment there.:eek:

[raja]

Re: this just in - hard STOP in CA

SS,

Check out the recent PBS historical reenactment --World War II - Behind Closed Doors. You can probably watch it free on the website.

You will change your opinion of Stalin if you watch this . . . .

[ThePythonicCow]

Re: this just in - hard STOP in CA

As one enjoys a cartoon, I've enjoyed your posts but that ends today. As are a few others, you're off my list of cute idiots I'll abide.

Well said. Agreed. I notice also that SS replied to several attempts to inform him of the errors in his earlier post by ignoring the facts in the replies, and just generating more slanderous inaccuracies. It's time I enhanced my rather modest ignore list.

[jiimbergin]

Re: this just in - hard STOP in CA

Well said. Agreed. I notice also that SS replied to several attempts to inform him of the errors in his earlier post by ignoring the facts in the replies, and just generating more slanderous inaccuracies. It's time I enhanced my rather modest ignore list.

I agree. This is the first time I have added anyone to my ignore list here.
jim

[flintlock]

Re: this just in - hard STOP in CA

This is not the hard greens. This is just practical reality. I live in the Southeast. Often in summertime, I have to wear a sweater indoors. That is ludicrous and unsustainable. I keep my own house in the 80's and use a fan. I use AC mainly for the dehumidification. Why is this so hard? Sure, "people aren't prepared for it". But they're going to get a dose of reality, one way or another, and that sure isn't the "hard greens" fault. If the "hard greens" had their way, there wouldn't be endless suburban sprawl all around the Southeast, and maybe life would be a bit more sustainable in our diminished economic future.

I agree the reliance on AC is ridiculous. I walk into freezing homes where housewives are complaining about the heat. People really have gotten pretty soft. I have a job that requires me to go into attics and other hot places in the summertime so I am acclimated to it. I remember playing golf one summer with three friends. It was warm, but still in the 80s. I thought it felt good actually. They were miserable and one actually got nauseated. . If people would allow themselves to get used to the heat, they could easily set their thermostats up 5 degrees .

[big67]

Re: this just in - hard STOP in CA

You know, ther is also a film showing Hitler donating a town to the Jews.

By the way, it's Auschwitz.

As for the "liberation" of eastern Europe, last year I was in Poland. Just ask them about it. They had a lot of liberated people they are still searching the graves of.

[metalman]

Re: this just in - hard STOP in CA

I agree. This is the first time I have added anyone to my ignore list here.
jim

how the heck did we get onto this from a thread re the CA economy?