Spain's 20% Unemployment...

[Sapiens]

http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?p...d=aaqg_fMc73es

June 3 (Bloomberg) -- Spanish workers are finding that the cure for a decade-long borrowing binge may just make things worse.

As Spain sinks deeper into recession and the jobless rate heads for 20 percent, the highest in Europe, employers are telling workers to accept wage cuts if they want to stay competitive. That’s making it harder for households to tackle a debt load built up during the country’s economic boom and equivalent to 18,000 euros ($25,700) per person.

“There’s a Catch-22 problem for Spain,” said Dominic Bryant, an economist at BNP Paribas SA in London, referring to the 1961 novel by Joseph Heller that highlights a no-win situation faced by a World War II pilot trying to avoid duty. “The solution for the competitiveness problem makes their debt problem worse. By squeezing wages you weaken the domestic economy further.”

...

:rolleyes:

[The Outback Oracle]

Re: Spain's 20% Unemployment...

http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?p...d=aaqg_fMc73es



:rolleyes:

That's why as Finster says "The answer lies back in time" or as another wit answered when asked for a solution "Well i wouldn't start from here"

[marvenger]

Re: Spain's 20% Unemployment...

all the debts are someone elses assets. Gates now reckons that billionares should give up their wealth. if he was serious why doesn't he oppose all these bailouts. the guy's a class A narcissist i reckon.

http://money.ninemsn.com.au/article.aspx?id=821561

[cjppjc]

Re: Spain's 20% Unemployment...

all the debts are someone elses assets. Gates now reckons that billionares should give up their wealth. if he was serious why doesn't he oppose all these bailouts. the guy's a class A narcissist i reckon.

http://money.ninemsn.com.au/article.aspx?id=821561

I'm not sure it's fair to call him a narcissist from that article. It would be a little hard to become the worlds richest man, in a world that values that above all else, and not have it go to your head just a little.

[marvenger]

Re: Spain's 20% Unemployment...

well you only get there because you're a narcissist and then when you get here you go, jesus I've got all this wealth and I don't know what to do with it, I know I'll create afoundation and name it after mysdelf and try to cure aids to immortalise myself. If he have a shit about others he'd be for debt forgiveness and a more democratic participation of the public. Not being debt serfs would be a good start.

[santafe2]

Re: Spain's 20% Unemployment...

http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?p...d=aaqg_fMc73es

Question for the Freds or anyone who tracks these things. How does Spain, or any other country outside of the US track unemployment? Do others use our tricky - sorry, you're discouraged, methodology? Maybe Spain's 20% is about the same as our 9%? How do we gauge unemployment between nations?

[flintlock]

Re: Spain's 20% Unemployment...

Question for the Freds or anyone who tracks these things. How does Spain, or any other country outside of the US track unemployment? Do others use our tricky - sorry, you're discouraged, methodology? Maybe Spain's 20% is about the same as our 9%? How do we gauge unemployment between nations?

Beat me to it. I was going to ask the same thing. I suspect they don't play with their numbers as much as we do.

[metalman]

Re: Spain's 20% Unemployment...

Question for the Freds or anyone who tracks these things. How does Spain, or any other country outside of the US track unemployment? Do others use our tricky - sorry, you're discouraged, methodology? Maybe Spain's 20% is about the same as our 9%? How do we gauge unemployment between nations?

spain vs oecd vs nationmaster

looking for up to date & consistent data? good friggin luck.

[santafe2]

Re: Spain's 20% Unemployment...

spain vs oecd vs nationmaster

looking for up to date & consistent data? good friggin luck.

It's Wiki data but maybe a good starting point:

Eurostat, the statistical office of the European Union, defines unemployed as those persons age 15 to 74 who are not working, have looked for work in the last four weeks, and ready to start work within two weeks, which conform to ILO standards. Both the actual count and rate of employment are reported. Statistical data are available by member state, EU12, EU15, EU25, EU27, EA11, and EA13. Eurostat also includes a long-term unemployment rate. This is defined as part of the unemployed who have been unemployed for an excess of 1 year.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Unemplo....28Eurostat.29

This certainly rhymes with US methodology. The problem I have with the 20% official number is that it really means ~40% if it's as self-serving as the US model and Spain is functioning much too well to have this level of unemployment. Experts? I know there is at least one of you out there lurking. How do we filter these numbers?

[Dridamse]

Re: Spain's 20% Unemployment...

I was Spain 3 weeks ago. Unemployment is high but not dramatic. Most people without a job are from South America, Morocco and Eastern Europe, Spain has 46 million people and 5.5 million inmigrants. There is also an important amount of EU residents, most of them from UK, Germany, France and Scandinavia. Some of them figure as unnemployed in Spain, collect benefits from their government and from the spanish government, live in the Sun for a fraction of the cost of living in Sweden or UK. They figure in the unemployment statiscs but are not shown in the total population. Most unemployment is also in the construction and house keeping sector.

[chimsha]

Re: Spain's 20% Unemployment...

First a couple of words of introduction. I’ve been following this forum for some time now with great interest and planning to contribute sooner or later! As I am based in Spain, couldn’t pass by this thread. Well, yes I would imagine that any figures on unemployment would be manipulated in favour of the government...the fact is, this is nothing new. In 1994, official figures were 24%!! No better indication of a bubble economy than the Spanish one, in this case housing with prices almost quadrupling in the hot areas (big cities, coastal resorts) in the period 2000-2007. I remember looking to buy an apartment in Barcelona in 2001 & ended up by not buying (which I sincerely regret) because I thought people were crazy. Talk about a sellers market...they’d show you a place & you had about 5 minutes to make up your mind, otherwise the next guy (who was waiting in line on the staircase) would very likely take it! The only question was how much is the monthly mortgage payment, as all you ITulipers are well familiar with. Trouble is we’re talking about minimum 30 yr variable mortgage & even up to 40 years for 100% & even 110% of the value of the property! So to get back to the unemployment figures, much of the miraculous growth in this period was obviously due to construction and now that the housing market has collapsed, where do all these people go? Practically no possibility of any other sector to absorb them. Spain presently has approx. 1 million houses (aparments) which are unsold & nobody is buying. On the one hand the constructors are resisiting bringing the prices down (they’re only just starting with limited, tepid discounts), on the other banks are no longer lending except to their most solvent customers. The labour market here is overpriced, not competitive and Spain is among one of the most expensive countries in which to fire a worker: costs employer about 30 days pay per year worked (until very recently was 45 days!). The Government has invested very little in R & D, the small to medium sized companies have been less adventurous in looking for export markets (in comparison for example to the Italians) & traditional strong industries such as textile have been destroyed for some time. What does that leave you? Construction & Tourism....of course this is not entirely true, there are a few very successful spanish companies working internationally but the fact is it is going to take a long time & a lot of hardship for many people to work off this massive debt, change the priorities of growth (doubt the politicos will ever do this), reform labour markets, social security, etc., all things which need to be done but probably won’t as they would all be supremely unpopular! In the meantime, there are no riots in the streets, cafés & restaurants (at any rate the cheaper ones) still pretty full. Government unemployment subsidies last a maximum of 2 years (as long as you have worked a minimum of 6 yrs), then it’s friends & family (which is still pretty strong here), collecting free meals fron charities such as Caritas (they’re doing a great job & have seen a huge influx of “normal” people) and hoping things will change! Just one word to add to previuos post. Spain in now expensive! particularly in the big cities & average salaries are lower...I suppose it's OK if you're collecting a good pension from Germanyn & living on the coast & bought your villa years ago but this is only a small fraction!

[santafe2]

Re: Spain's 20% Unemployment...

First a couple of words of introduction. I’ve been following this forum for some time now with great interest and planning to contribute sooner or later! As I am based in Spain, couldn’t pass by this thread.

Your report from the ground, (and the previous poster), are greatly appreciated. As you may imagine, Santa Fe is still today a very comfortable town for Spanish expats. The reports from their families at home are similar to yours.

[BigLandbaron]

Re: Spain's 20% Unemployment...

http://unstats.un.org/unsd/mbs/app/D...earto=2009&p=A