Crap-Ola-Ville

[BadJuju]

Re: Crap-Ola-Ville

Cost me maybe $3 for the capacitors.

Nice work, KGW!

[don]

Re: Crap-Ola-Ville

Our old television quit after at least 15 years of great service, the screen going mostly green as a color 'gun' failed. I went to Best Buy- the retail choices around here are few and fewer- and was treated like a leper when I wasn't in the market for a flat screen monstrosity. In the TV ghetto I found what looked like a comparable replacement. It lasted a month and went dead. 'Luckily' I was under their 30 day no-question replacement time period. That television lasted another month, then went completely dead. They replaced that one, apparently an extraordinary gesture on their part, they let me know. It lasted 3 months. By then I had finally done my homework and discovered this was a problem everyone seemed to be having with this television. I hauled the last carcass back to Best Buy. They gave me an employee's discount on a little flat screen Toshiba. I spent $400 for a 5 month TV rental. The Toshiba is doing fine. The picture is inferior to my old set. Over time I forget. :mad::p

[BadJuju]

Re: Crap-Ola-Ville

I understand your pain, don. My transition to LCDs was not without its problems, either. I went through a couple monitors before settling on a Samsung, which has been a great purchase.

[flintlock]

Re: Crap-Ola-Ville

My mother bought a nice, big, side by side with icemaker: expensive. She woke up one morning and the display over the ice/water dispenser was fubar, as was the temperature. . . It was going to take 4 days for the service (just out of warranty, of course) people to arrive. I googled the symptoms and the make of reefer, and found out she was not alone. Over $400 service call.

The good thing was some fellow had taken the time to figure out all it was was 2 bad capacitors on the logic board at the rear panel. Had a color pdf file on how to replace them! So I went to radio shack, got the capacitors, removed the logic board, and replaced the bad with the good. Told my mother to call the service people and cancel the $400 service call. Cost me maybe $3 for the capacitors.

Being handy can save a ton of money. I've fixed my crappy fridge more than once. I keep telling my wife she doesn't appreciate how much I save us every year. I think she'd prefer I was rich and all thumbs.

[hoodoo]

Re: Crap-Ola-Ville

Two words...

"Builder grade"

This convenient form of thievery took shape as every brand of appliance maker prostituted their flagship brand names onto the lowest quality crap that had ever been produced.

The major brand appliances in the kitchen of our rental (only 3 years old) will require replacement within the next year or two. When our dishwasher failed I looked up the appliance name to see if I could order parts which eventually led me to needing to search via serial number. What did I find? Two dishwashers with the same top line label - the consumer grade had one parts list, the builder grade shared most of the internal parts with the bottom line washer.

Hoo

[c1ue]

Re: Crap-Ola-Ville

I posted in a Report from the Front on a friend who is doing really well with a new business repairing appliances.

Consistent with this story.

[charliebrown]

Re: Crap-Ola-Ville

I can relate to everyone's problems here. I have a multi-point theory here.

1.) The sheeple are attraced by "features". Every appliance has a feature list which keeps growing. Nowhere on the list will you see something like MTBF. This may be implied by a good warantee, but warantees are a con-game. Companies know that only a small percentage of warranties will be claimed.

2) I am an engineer too. My work is driven by features. Reliability is "assumed" but not designed in. It only becomes an issue when the product hits the field and complaints pick up. From experience the more "features" the lower the reliablity.

3) I have anecdotal evidence that warranties are a con-game. Lets face it, do they cover everything? Parts, Service call, inconvience etc? When I replaced my hot water heater, I was told that the 9yr tank was the same tank as the 5yr. The cost difference between the 5 and 9 was 400 vs 700. Of course the 9yr had some extra features, that increase the manufatures price negligably, and of are questionable use. The extra price was just some kind of future-value thing that if maytag gets to hold your extra $300 for a number of years , the finance spinners figure they are ahead if both units last 10 years. Additionally even if the tank is warranted for 9 years, it does not cover install.

If you have a small appliance like a microwave, dvd, coffee maker etc and it breaks forget the warranty, you will either drive 25 miles one way to a service center (twice), or just throw it out and buy a new one. What's more important, a days of driving, or $100.00 you pick.

My new microwave blew a fuse in the third month. Fuse is NOT in an easily accessable spot. Had to take the cover off with a special "safety" torx screw. Since that time two years ago still going. Hmm bad fuse?

3) Given the sheeple's mindset, when your $1000 frigde breaks after 10 years, Its better to buy a new one and get all the latest "features" . Oh and charge it too, because that way its only $30.00 a month. I don't have the $500.00 for the repair.

Like Mr. Hendrix says, my mother in law's 25 yr micro wave still runs, I has one dial (time) and two buttons start, stop. I do wish it had a power setting, but all the electronic computer stuff on a microwave is just B.S; Additionally my parents water heater, dryer, fridge, washer etc are all in the 20yr range. Working just fine.

4) Price of raw materials is steadily increasing, companies have been reducing the amount of materials in products. Look after you take so much metal out of an appliance, its just not going to last. With the cost of plastic resin increasing too we can see less plastic too.

5) I don't know if there is some kind of conference, backroom deal between manufactures, that says "hey if you make crappy products, so will I" This way they can keep lowering the bar on quality. I used to work for the airline industry for a major, and yes our service was crappy, but guess what? so was everyone else's, You can't just say screw you I'm going to file American, because a few flights on them and you got screwed too.

[BadJuju]

Re: Crap-Ola-Ville

I abhor feature creep! I miss the days when a TV was a TV and a washer was a washer.

[JOELBG1]

Re: Crap-Ola-Ville

If you spend a little bit more, you will get a lot more. About 8 years ago I replaced all of the older inefficient appliances with newer high efficiency units.

I have had good luck with the Swedish made ASKO brand...I bought an ASKO Dishwasher and ASKO clothes washer...exceptional units that work really well without any problems.

The Kitchen Aid Fridge...ditto.

We also stopped using a clothes dryer and now hang dry all clothes. That first year we dropped our electric bill by over 50%! So you get what you pay for. Buy quality and you will not be dissappointed.

[flintlock]

Re: Crap-Ola-Ville

We air dry clothes also. The Dryer is one of the biggest energy users in homes. Especially with three kids. Thing was running all day long.

[flintlock]

Re: Crap-Ola-Ville

I can relate to everyone's problems here. I have a multi-point theory here.

1.) The sheeple are attraced by "features". Every appliance has a feature list which keeps growing. Nowhere on the list will you see something like MTBF. This may be implied by a good warantee, but warantees are a con-game. Companies know that only a small percentage of warranties will be claimed.

2) I am an engineer too. My work is driven by features. Reliability is "assumed" but not designed in. It only becomes an issue when the product hits the field and complaints pick up. From experience the more "features" the lower the reliablity.

3) I have anecdotal evidence that warranties are a con-game. Lets face it, do they cover everything? Parts, Service call, inconvience etc? When I replaced my hot water heater, I was told that the 9yr tank was the same tank as the 5yr. The cost difference between the 5 and 9 was 400 vs 700. Of course the 9yr had some extra features, that increase the manufatures price negligably, and of are questionable use. The extra price was just some kind of future-value thing that if maytag gets to hold your extra $300 for a number of years , the finance spinners figure they are ahead if both units last 10 years. Additionally even if the tank is warranted for 9 years, it does not cover install.

If you have a small appliance like a microwave, dvd, coffee maker etc and it breaks forget the warranty, you will either drive 25 miles one way to a service center (twice), or just throw it out and buy a new one. What's more important, a days of driving, or $100.00 you pick.

My new microwave blew a fuse in the third month. Fuse is NOT in an easily accessable spot. Had to take the cover off with a special "safety" torx screw. Since that time two years ago still going. Hmm bad fuse?

3) Given the sheeple's mindset, when your $1000 frigde breaks after 10 years, Its better to buy a new one and get all the latest "features" . Oh and charge it too, because that way its only $30.00 a month. I don't have the $500.00 for the repair.

Like Mr. Hendrix says, my mother in law's 25 yr micro wave still runs, I has one dial (time) and two buttons start, stop. I do wish it had a power setting, but all the electronic computer stuff on a microwave is just B.S; Additionally my parents water heater, dryer, fridge, washer etc are all in the 20yr range. Working just fine.

4) Price of raw materials is steadily increasing, companies have been reducing the amount of materials in products. Look after you take so much metal out of an appliance, its just not going to last. With the cost of plastic resin increasing too we can see less plastic too.

5) I don't know if there is some kind of conference, backroom deal between manufactures, that says "hey if you make crappy products, so will I" This way they can keep lowering the bar on quality. I used to work for the airline industry for a major, and yes our service was crappy, but guess what? so was everyone else's, You can't just say screw you I'm going to file American, because a few flights on them and you got screwed too.

It's Globalism dude. Globalism is a race to the bottom, pure and simple. Cheapest wins. People want all the features for less money. So that starts the downward spiral. Throw in the short sighted view of most people these days and the inevitable result is lower quality. The companies that used to make quality appliances, if they refuse to lower quality to meet the "emerging market" competition, finds itself out of business. Yes, there will always be a small segment of people willing to pay for higher quality, but for the most part, people want to have their cake and eat it too. And the more technically ignorant Americans get, the more they fail to see the difference in quality. Its all Greek to them. They just like the shiny fake stainless steel.

My parents 30 year old appliances are still working too. Well, the analog clock timer on the oven did quit working.

I was at a job a few weeks ago where the light bulb burned out in the built-
in microwave. You have to disassemble the thing to change it. I mean completely. Take it down and unbolt a dozen parts. lol. It was about 1 year old.

Talking about warranties. I install stuff all the time with a"10 year warranty". Only they fail to mention the labor cost would exceed the value of the part by 3x.

[FrankL]

Re: Crap-Ola-Ville

It's Globalism dude. Globalism is a race to the bottom, pure and simple. Cheapest wins. People want all the features for less money. So that starts the downward spiral. Throw in the short sighted view of most people these days and the inevitable result is lower quality. The companies that used to make quality appliances, if they refuse to lower quality to meet the "emerging market" competition, finds itself out of business. Yes, there will always be a small segment of people willing to pay for higher quality, but for the most part, people want to have their cake and eat it too. And the more technically ignorant Americans get, the more they fail to see the difference in quality. Its all Greek to them. They just like the shiny fake stainless steel.

My parents 30 year old appliances are still working too. Well, the analog clock timer on the oven did quit working.

I was at a job a few weeks ago where the light bulb burned out in the built-
in microwave. You have to disassemble the thing to change it. I mean completely. Take it down and unbolt a dozen parts. lol. It was about 1 year old.

Talking about warranties. I install stuff all the time with a"10 year warranty". Only they fail to mention the labor cost would exceed the value of the part by 3x.

not just that though. There's also been this drive by manufacturers to capitalise on their brand image (if they were into high-end appliances) by starting to sell low budget stuff, not necessarily needing it for their survival. I can give you examples in computer equipment like Iiyama (CRT monitors) and Plextor (Optical drives), who have gone this exact way.

Others however just stick to the niche market they're good at, and seem to survive just fine (e.g. Eizo, Miele?). Imo, there's this idea that companies always need to increase their profits, expand their market, etc in the short run, even if it ruins them in the long run.

Why can't companies (or even economies of countries to draw a parallel) be based on an equilibrium where enough money is earned to sustain themselves rather than to try and keep expanding? The latter is inherently instable in the long run if you ask me.

[Starving Steve]

Re: Crap-Ola-Ville

Those of us who have worked as engineers designing stuff have seen the reason for this.

Most of the old stuff either died already (beware survivors bias here) or if it's still working well, was probably designed by some engineers encouraged to "make it solid" and managed by some old time former engineers who expected quality work. Design and manufacturing were done in nearby locations, by people who knew each other.

The bulk of the new appliances is coming from a few large companies, sharing an even smaller number of overseas manufacturing plants, run by accountants and financial wizards, with the engineer doing the designing several layers down the corporate org chart. Look what happened to GE, a once proud maker of some fine appliances. It is now dominated by its FIRE financing units.

A bunch of fancy new gadgets have been added to what were basic appliances, in order to compete in the McMansion superfueled residential market in places like the United States. Volume shipment at lowest cost and tighest schedule of the newest marketing geewhiz doodad became the main objectives.

That's no way to run a railroad :rolleyes:.

Of all my stock investments, GE has been the absolute worst: $33 to $13 in one year. Yet, GE makes things the world is begging for: reactors, turbines, locomotives, medical diagnostic equipment, medical information systems, home appliances, energy transmission systems, et. al.

GE innovates, manufactures, and exports to the entire world. And GE pays a handsome dividend and makes a profit. Its CEO is absolutely right-on in his thinking.... So, what's the problem with GE?

If we can ascertain the reason why GE is a dog of an investment, maybe we can better understand why the U.S. economy is in the tank. Yes, a great part of the problem is Bernanke's constant inflating and total mismanagement of the economy.... But something else is going-on in America; what is it?

Yes, GE mistakenly ventured into the FIRE economy with its stupid GE Capital. But GE is now getting out of that crap. So why is the market still so negative on GE stock?

[we_are_toast]

Re: Crap-Ola-Ville

The microwave looks shot (it seems to work, but there is a hole where the radiation-thing is).

:eek:

Have you noticed that your heart tends to skip a beat when you're waiting for the popcorn to finish?

Do you get a headache when you try to warm up your cup of coffee?

Do you notice that your tan seems to start earlier and end later than everyone else in the neighborhood?

Does your cell phone randomly call people when your warming up last nights leftovers?

You might want to have that hole looked at.

[flintlock]

Re: Crap-Ola-Ville

not just that though. There's also been this drive by manufacturers to capitalise on their brand image (if they were into high-end appliances) by starting to sell low budget stuff, not necessarily needing it for their survival. I can give you examples in computer equipment like Iiyama (CRT monitors) and Plextor (Optical drives), who have gone this exact way.

Others however just stick to the niche market they're good at, and seem to survive just fine (e.g. Eizo, Miele?). Imo, there's this idea that companies always need to increase their profits, expand their market, etc in the short run, even if it ruins them in the long run.

Why can't companies (or even economies of countries to draw a parallel) be based on an equilibrium where enough money is earned to sustain themselves rather than to try and keep expanding? The latter is inherently instable in the long run if you ask me.

Yeah, I see a lot of that, selling out, trying to capitalize on a good name. Like eating the seed corn. They only get one shot at it then their good name is ruined.

A lot of that is just shortsighted thinking. But a lot is driven by the need of corporations to keep growing. You have to have something to show a net change from one period to the other. It's no longer good enough just to turn a profit. You have to turn an ever bigger profit or the stock price drops. Or show larger market share, something. Its all about short term stock price and not long term sustainable growth. Executives know the payoff is to have a few good quarters, get paid and move on.

Americans are their own worst enemies sometimes. Bargain shopping has become a pastime. Only people confuse a bargain with just plain cheap.

These quotes sum up my philosophy on the issue:

There is scarcely anything in the world that some man cannot make a little worse, and sell a little more cheaply. The person who buys on price alone is this man's lawful prey.

It's unwise to pay too much, but it's worse to pay too little. When you pay too much, you lose a little money — that is all. When you pay too little, you sometimes lose everything, because the thing you bought was incapable of doing the thing it was bought to do. The common law of business balance prohibits paying a little and getting a lot — it can't be done. If you deal with the lowest bidder, it is well to add something for the risk you run, and if you do that you will have enough to pay for something better.

Attributed to John Ruskin.