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  • Saudis talk possible oil shock again...

    >From the UK Guardian, Business section.

    ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
    Saudi Arabia warned today that the world could be facing another oil shock,
    with prices back above the record highs of almost $150 a barrel within two
    to three years.

    The comments from the Saudi oil minister at an energy summit in Rome were
    echoed by the IMF, both blaming lower prices and the global recession for
    hampering investment in new capacity.

    Prices have fallen back from the peak they reached last year, largely
    because of the fall in demand in the downturn, and are hovering at about $60
    a barrel.

    "We are maintaining our long-term focus rather than being swayed by the
    volatility of short-term conditions," said the Saudi oil minister, Ali
    al-Naimi, ahead of an Opec meeting in Vienna on Thursday. "However, if
    others do not begin to invest similarly in new capacity expansion projects,
    we could see within two to three years another price spike similar to or
    worse than what we witnessed in 2008."

    He said low prices and weak demand had discouraged investment in energy
    projects. Those problems had been compounded by high development costs,
    tight credit markets and energy policies that are focused on alternative
    fuel sources.

    IMF first deputy managing director John Lipsky said: "With long
    time-to-build lags, significant setbacks to oil investment today could set
    the stage for future sharp price increases."

    Oil prices reached $147 a barrel in July 2008, worsening the global
    downturn, before falling sharply to $32 as the recession took hold.

    "The extreme volatility we experienced is detrimental to our goal of
    establishing secure and stable energy markets," Al-Naimi added. "It
    discourages the smooth flow of capital into the energy sector and in doing
    so undermines our collective energy security."

    A study published in March suggested that the slowdown in investment in oil
    and gas production could cut nearly 8m barrels a day of future oil supply
    growth. The report from Cambridge Energy Research Associates said the
    reduction in capacity is a "potentially powerful and long-lasting
    aftershock".

    The International Energy Agency has voiced similar concerns. At a conference
    in London two months ago, the agency's deputy director, Richard Jones, said:
    "Unless sufficient companies have the will and financial ability to invest
    through the downcycle, there is a real risk that supply growth may lag the
    eventual rebound of demand, leading to substantial price increases -
    possibly as early as this year."

    Opec has said that as many as 35 new projects could be delayed beyond 2013.

    The G8 energy summit aims to define a joint strategy to tackle climate
    change, promote investment in new projects and spur dialogue between
    producers and consumer nations, as well as increasing energy resources in
    poor countries. The World Bank urged leaders not to forget the poor in
    Africa.

    Output levels are expected to remain unchanged at the Opec meeting. Al-Naimi
    said Opec would probably "stay the course" rather than cutting output. And
    the Iranian oil minister also said that cuts in capacity were unlikely,
    according to local media, although president Mahmoud Ahmadinejad said today
    that he would prefer Opec to cut further.

    "The real economic value of a barrel of oil is much higher than what it is
    today," he said. "Unfortunately today the oil price is fluctuating under the
    impact of non-economic conditions."


  • #2
    Re: Saudis talk possible oil shock again...

    Originally posted by KGW View Post
    "We are maintaining our long-term focus rather than being swayed by the
    volatility of short-term conditions," said the Saudi oil minister, Ali
    al-Naimi, ahead of an Opec meeting in Vienna on Thursday. "However, if
    others do not begin to invest similarly in new capacity expansion projects,

    we could see within two to three years another price spike similar to or
    worse than what we witnessed in 2008."
    This sounds like a key quote to me. Whomever can invest in new capacity expansion products will be well received in the Royal House of the Saudis.

    Hmmm ... I wonder who has any spare money laying about for petro projects?

    Most folks are good; a few aren't.

    Comment


    • #3
      Re: Saudis talk possible oil shock again...

      Originally posted by ThePythonicCow View Post
      ...Hmmm ... I wonder who has any spare money laying about for petro projects?
      Our good friends at Exxon, of course...;)

      http://www.itulip.com/forums/showthread.php?t=10066

      Comment


      • #4
        Re: Saudis talk possible oil shock again...

        Originally posted by KGW View Post
        Saudi Arabia warned today that the world could be facing another oil shock...
        We're out of cheap oil. 2008 was likely a foreshock. This downturn is a good time to prepare for the future.

        Comment


        • #5
          Re: Saudis talk possible oil shock again...

          Originally posted by KGW View Post
          >From the UK Guardian, Business section.

          ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
          Saudi Arabia warned today that the world could be facing another oil shock, with prices back above the record highs of almost $150 a barrel within two to three years.

          The comments from the Saudi oil minister at an energy summit in Rome
          "We are maintaining our long-term focus rather than being swayed by the volatility of short-term conditions," said the Saudi oil minister, Ali al-Naimi, ahead of an Opec meeting in Vienna on Thursday.

          "However, if others do not begin to invest similarly in new capacity expansion projects, we could see within two to three years another price spike similar to or worse than what we witnessed in 2008."
          With the greatest of respects to those of you in the oil industry, I read this report in an entirely different light. The one word that stands out has not been recognised; "Others" ... if others do not begin to invest...

          What he is saying to my mind is that there is no possibility of an increase of capacity from Saudi. And that tells me we are at, or even now, well beyond peak oil for the Saudi oilfields. Food for thought?

          Comment


          • #6
            Re: Saudis talk possible oil shock again...

            Originally posted by KGW View Post
            >F

            "We are maintaining our long-term focus rather than being swayed by the
            volatility of short-term conditions," said the Saudi oil minister, Ali
            al-Naimi, ahead of an Opec meeting in Vienna on Thursday. "However, if
            others do not begin to invest similarly in new capacity expansion projects,
            we could see within two to three years another price spike similar to or
            worse than what we witnessed in 2008."
            Didn't Mr. Ali get the memo?

            We are heading into a world-wide Depression.
            The falling output will match falling demand.

            Or maybe he's banking on the "green shoots" growing into robust shrubbery?
            raja
            Boycott Big Banks • Vote Out Incumbents

            Comment


            • #7
              Re: Saudis talk possible oil shock again...

              Originally posted by raja View Post
              Didn't Mr. Ali get the memo?

              We are heading into a world-wide Depression.
              The falling output will match falling demand.

              Or maybe he's banking on the "green shoots" growing into robust shrubbery?
              Apparently all copies of the memo were lost in the mail.

              I notice the NYMEX didn't get it copy either ;):

              July 09 light crude closed at $65.08 today
              Dec 09 @ $68.12
              Dec 10 @ $71.96
              and so forth...

              I seem to recall a few years ago [circa 2004] hearing predictions that when oil got above $50.00 it would be disaster for the world economy. As you point out the world economy is certainly in a disaster...and now $60.00 oil is considered a price collapse...:rolleyes:

              Comment


              • #8
                Re: Saudis talk possible oil shock again...

                From Chris:
                What he is saying to my mind is that there is no possibility of an increase of capacity from Saudi. And that tells me we are at, or even now, well beyond peak oil for the Saudi oilfields. Food for thought?
                If I remember correctly the Saudis were tasked with increasing their output to help keep world oil prices from further rises oh, maybe a year ago? With skyrocketing prices as motivation they managed to raise their output a paltry few percent, and that only with extraordinary efforts. Ditto for the rest of the world, for that matter.

                Worldwide oil supply will rise and fall a bit around its maximum for the next while, with each silently regarded dry hole replaced by a loudly proclaimed little gusher somewhere else. Right now, Mexico is watching wells dry up so somebody else has to, and will, step forward to replace it or part of it.

                It would be nice to have some nice $100, $125, and $150 oil drilled and ready to cushion the coming price spikes but the free market does not work that way. When was the last time you heard the chant, "Drill, Baby Drill"? Further, cushioning the price spikes may be counterproductive because only with shock will people do anything. Sadly, mostly what they do is panic, but at least it is something.

                Oil producing nations should probably invest their declining value dollars in oil drilling and let the wells sit until the next price spike. It should not be hard to replace those dollars and lots more should the world ever be able to afford oil again. I suspect the Saudis are doing exactly that. If, along the way, oil consuming nations invested their dollars in alternatives and efficiencies the world might not suffer an extended painful peak for many decades. Just remember, we have plenty of oil for a century or more if everybody just uses less and less of it and more and more of something else each year. Otherwise, for the procrastinators and deniers we have plenty of $200+ oil in the future.

                Comment


                • #9
                  Re: Saudis talk possible oil shock again...

                  Originally posted by Chris Coles View Post
                  With the greatest of respects to those of you in the oil industry, I read this report in an entirely different light. The one word that stands out has not been recognised; "Others" ... if others do not begin to invest...

                  What he is saying to my mind is that there is no possibility of an increase of capacity from Saudi. And that tells me we are at, or even now, well beyond peak oil for the Saudi oilfields. Food for thought?
                  I'm no geologist or petroleum engineer, but I've read an enormous amount of research since 2004 on the subject of Peak Oil.
                  From Wachovia, A.G. Edwards, Goldman Sachs, Smith-Barney, Credit Suisse, BMO Nesbitt Burns, Raymond James, Matt Simmons, and so many others I can't even remember them all. I believe we are at Peak [Cheap] Oil - or very close.

                  I reserve the right to be wrong, but it will take real evidence to convince me otherwise.

                  This is why I have kept between 20% and 30% of my liquid net worth invested in oil equities since 2005.
                  And I am eagerly anticipating what EJ and FRED have to say about oil as another plank for our investments.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Re: Saudis talk possible oil shock again...

                    Originally posted by Raz View Post
                    I'm no geologist or petroleum engineer, but I've read an enormous amount of research since 2004 on the subject of Peak Oil.
                    From Wachovia, A.G. Edwards, Goldman Sachs, Smith-Barney, Credit Suisse, BMO Nesbitt Burns, Raymond James, Matt Simmons, and so many others I can't even remember them all. I believe we are at Peak [Cheap] Oil - or very close.

                    I reserve the right to be wrong, but it will take real evidence to convince me otherwise.

                    This is why I have kept between 20% and 30% of my liquid net worth invested in oil equities since 2005.
                    And I am eagerly anticipating what EJ and FRED have to say about oil as another plank for our investments.
                    Given what iTulip is all about, the question of whether or not to invest in oil is easy. The question of how is more complex.


                    Ed.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Re: Saudis talk possible oil shock again...

                      Agreed. Peak Minerals too. I am buying DBC on the dips. I think this is about 15% West Tex, and 15% Heading oil. Additionally there is Corn, Wheat, Alumina, and our favorite here at itulip Gold. Since Corn, Wheat and Alumina are farmed, shipped, mined, etc. Oil plays a major role as an input cost too.

                      Raz, do you think it is better to own an Oil company, or a Commidity ETF like USO, DBC etc. Afraid a successful u.s. energy company will get punished by the current administration.

                      I'm watching UNG and looking for an entry point. It is close at hand I believe.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Re: Saudis talk possible oil shock again...

                        Originally posted by FRED View Post
                        Given what iTulip is all about, the question of whether or not to invest in oil is easy. The question of how is more complex.
                        Money and effort spent now to lower ones long term medical bills and energy bills can also pay off more than current pricing suggests. Get healthier, fix up ones house, ... stuff like that. For example, I am improving the energy efficiency of my roof and windows.

                        In the go-go days of Silicon Valley, it was not like this so much. I threw caution, health and electric bills to the winds, focusing on using my talents to deliver value and increase income.

                        Nowadays both banks and individuals need to back off from over-optimizing for the expected outcome, to instead doing "ok" in a wide range of possible outcomes, some unforseen. Lower ones run rate below what one is confident of maintaining even in hard times.
                        Most folks are good; a few aren't.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Re: Saudis talk possible oil shock again...

                          Originally posted by FRED View Post
                          Given what iTulip is all about, the question of whether or not to invest in oil is easy. The question of how is more complex.



                          &ampnbsp
                          &ampnbsp

                          I've never owned stock in Royal Dutch or Shell. The only Major I own is Chevron. If they are guilty of anything even remotely similar to this I will be at the next shareholders meeting screaming bloody-murder.:mad:

                          My holdings are 79% Canadian (Arc Energy, Crescent Point Energy, Enerplus Resources, Vermillion Energy, Husky Energy, Progress Energy and Zargon Energy). Anadarko, Occidental and Chevron round out the rest.

                          Sure hope their hands aren't this dirty.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Re: Saudis talk possible oil shock again...

                            Here are two of the legion of tree-huggers in the U.S. who don't want Alberta to deliver light sweet up-graded oil to the U.S. market, and they have been protesting the development of Alberta's tar sands:

                            The Natural Resource Defence Council, Washington, DC. To contact one of the protesters: contact Liz Barret-Brown.

                            Ceres, Company, Boston, Mass. To contact one of the protesters: contact Andrew Logan.

                            Here is U.S. legislation passed by the Congress which has been used to try to prevent the entry of Alberta's light sweet up-graded oil which originates from the tar sands: The U.S. Energy Independence Act. This act prohibits importation of supposedly high carbon foot-print energy.

                            To say this is a conspiracy to cheat the American people out of affordable oil is an under-statement.

                            The tree-huggers have opposed drilling for oil off Los Angeles where a huge deposit of light sweet oil is ready for-the-taking. The tree-huggers have opposed nuclear power. The tree-huggers oppose Alberta's pipeline construction to Kitimat, BC. They also oppose the pipeline from Edmonton to the U.S. They also oppose oil tankers taking oil from Kitimat, BC.

                            So enjoy your $200 per barrel oil. That is next.

                            Don't you dare blame Exxon or the Saudis. Blame the eco-frauds in the environmental movement, and they have connections in the U.S. Congress including Nancy Pelosi.

                            I am a liberal, a social-democrat, and a socialist, but I despise this bunch in Washington now. They were elected to pass socialized medicine, and NOT to go off on a radical environmentalist agenda.

                            The Obama bunch is actually worse than the Bush bunch. Compare the first 100 days of the FDR Administration to the first 100 days of the Obama Administration; it's like night and day. The FDR liberals and socialists had a workable plan, whereas the Obama bunch is in solar energy and windmill dreamland.
                            Last edited by Starving Steve; May 29, 2009, 06:44 PM.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Re: Saudis talk possible oil shock again...

                              Originally posted by charliebrown View Post
                              Agreed. Peak Minerals too. I am buying DBC on the dips. I think this is about 15% West Tex, and 15% Heading oil. Additionally there is Corn, Wheat, Alumina, and our favorite here at itulip Gold. Since Corn, Wheat and Alumina are farmed, shipped, mined, etc. Oil plays a major role as an input cost too.

                              Raz, do you think it is better to own an Oil company, or a Commidity ETF like USO, DBC etc. Afraid a successful u.s. energy company will get punished by the current administration.

                              I'm watching UNG and looking for an entry point. It is close at hand I believe.
                              I don't own USO at present because I believe Crude is nearing at least an intermediate top.
                              I'm even thinking of hedging my holdings in oil equities very soon.

                              However, I plan on holding these stocks until someone convinces me that oil is going to remain in a multi-year Bear Market.
                              I will reduce my holdings should they exceed 33% and hedge them when I believe a significant drop is likely.
                              In 2008 I sold enough to drop my allocation down to about 20%, but it still hurt like h#*l last Fall !!!:eek:


                              I'll be glad to share any research I have by private E-mail if you're interested in any of the equities I own.

                              Comment

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