There's Still a Future for Dirty Oil...

[santafe2]

Re: There's Still a Future for Dirty Oil...

What are the prospects of using liquefied coal as a transportation fuel?

Coal liquefaction is possible but currently it is expensive, highly polluting and has a negative energy return on investment. There is some hope that pebble bed nuclear reactors can be used in the future to make this a more economically and environmentally feasible process.

See this Wiki for a quick overview:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Coal#Li...uids_.28CTL.29

[johnny531]

Re: There's Still a Future for Dirty Oil...

1. If Aunt Sally jumps in her Buick and heads to the mall to partake in that great American pastime...buying stuff...is that considered "non-commercial" consumption [in an economy where some 70% of GDP comes from just this sort of activity]?

Unless Sally is shipping freight in the back of her Buick, then no. 'Non-commercial' isn't quite right; let's say traffic w/ a road weight of ~5000lbs or less.

1. The USA is a vast nation. The transportation system, and its differences from the solutions used in the densely populated, compact nations in much of Asia and Europe reflect that fact. One of the things that always struck me when I lived in the UK was how small the place was, and how quickly one could get clear across the country [on the train, not the motorway]. "Short distance" probably means something completely different to us compared to many of them...

True. Here I define 'short' to be all or most of the typical distance driven by Americans in a day. According to http://abcnews.go.com/Technology/Tra...=485098&page=1 the average round-trip commute is 32 miles, so perhaps 30-40 miles.

[flintlock]

Re: There's Still a Future for Dirty Oil...

Put a tax on soccer moms. Problem solved.

[phirang]

Re: There's Still a Future for Dirty Oil...

The Fed could raise the FFR to 8%: that'd solve peak oil for a while.

[Starving Steve]

Re: There's Still a Future for Dirty Oil...

What are the prospects of using liquefied coal as a transportation fuel?

Since NG is plentiful, then why not convert cars to use it?

I agree with the premise of Peak Oil. However, the problem is that we don't have enough data to be able to say when the peak will happen, or how long the tail will be. There are too many parties involved who benefit by presenting distorted numbers to the public, that at best it seems like guesswork at the moment. At worst, manipulation on a massive scale.

In the long term, my feeling is that escalating energy costs will strongly encourage humans to live and work in much closer proximity than we do today. In my opinion, building and supporting suburbia has squandered a large fraction of our invaluable and largely irreplaceable energy resources, and in the long term it will not be supportable. Large-scale vertical urbanization is a much more energy efficient solution, in spite of how deplorable it might feel for many of us.

Any savings in fuel by living near shopping is more than eaten-up by absolutely outrageous land costs. So you end-up shelling-out your money to the landlords for rent or property.

Land costs kill cities.

City planners hooked on density are another bunch on my sh*t list. And when these stinkers get together with the eco-frauds, the result is poverty for everyone except the chosen few who hold the developable land.

Don't get me going on this because I have high blood pressure.

[charliebrown]

Re: There's Still a Future for Dirty Oil...

agreed with the suburbia thing, but why do we have the mess we have?

I live in the far suburbs of chicago, why?
Everything is more expensive in the city. food, energy, taxes, real-estate etc.
Crime rate is high, schools stink, It's polluted both with garbage and lower air quality, its crowded (traffic) and noisy.

I have noticed over the last decade or so the growth of the big box store. These put the corner stores out of business. Now I have to drive 7 miles to get a box of nails. When I first moved into my suburban town, it had everything I needed within a mile. hardware, gas, grocery, drug store, video, convienence store, liquor, bank, deli. over the last decade we lost hardware, grocery, video (not an issue with net flicks) and deli. Lost one gas station.

The big box store is a scam. usually it forces you to drive a long way to save a few percent. Wal-mart gets cheap land, lower taxes etc. You get a long drive even if gas is free, my time is not.

What is the future of suburbia without cheap energy.

[cjppjc]

Re: There's Still a Future for Dirty Oil...

Don't get me going on this because I have high blood pressure.

Pay a lot for electricity up there Steve?

[cjppjc]

Re: There's Still a Future for Dirty Oil...

agreed with the suburbia thing, but why do we have the mess we have?

I live in the far suburbs of chicago, why?
Everything is more expensive in the city. food, energy, taxes, real-estate etc.
Crime rate is high, schools stink, It's polluted both with garbage and lower air quality, its crowded (traffic) and noisy.

I have noticed over the last decade or so the growth of the big box store. These put the corner stores out of business. Now I have to drive 7 miles to get a box of nails. When I first moved into my suburban town, it had everything I needed within a mile. hardware, gas, grocery, drug store, video, convienence store, liquor, bank, deli. over the last decade we lost hardware, grocery, video (not an issue with net flicks) and deli. Lost one gas station.

The big box store is a scam. usually it forces you to drive a long way to save a few percent. Wal-mart gets cheap land, lower taxes etc. You get a long drive even if gas is free, my time is not.

What is the future of suburbia without cheap energy.

There is an associated cost for EVERYTHING in life. If you think there is something without one, you just haven't thought hard enough.

[BadJuju]

Re: There's Still a Future for Dirty Oil...

Pay a lot for electricity up there Steve?

Might want to look into setting up a wind turbine and some solar panels. ;)

[cjppjc]

Re: There's Still a Future for Dirty Oil...

Might want to look into setting up a wind turbine and some solar panels. ;)

That's nice. Pile on.

[Roughneck]

Re: There's Still a Future for Dirty Oil...

Some of the newer " planned developments" for subdivisions have shopping centers,grocery stores and movie theaters etc "in" the development. So really you only need to drive any distance to go to work. This is really the future. Where I live is 28 miles one way to work. But, I have a wally world,gas station,hardware within 2 miles of the house. XOM has in development a H2 fuel cell that uses gasoline and gets 80% better economy. Diesel powered hybrids, electric plug ins for shor trips, lots of options. when gasoline gets expensive enough you will see some changes. The big suv will be to haul your boat to the river or to go on vacation. You just don't drive it every day. It may even be diesel and get 20 plus MPG.

[BadJuju]

Re: There's Still a Future for Dirty Oil...

That's nice. Pile on.

Mwahaha. :cool:

[santafe2]

Re: There's Still a Future for Dirty Oil...

Might want to look into setting up a wind turbine and some solar panels. ;)

I was going to offer Starving the family price on solar just to know he was using eco-fraud energy....;)

[GRG55]

Re: There's Still a Future for Dirty Oil...

I was going to offer Starving the family price on solar just to know he was using eco-fraud energy....;)

I was going to send him two barrels of bitumen and a couple of wicks, so he could get off the grid and enrage his "eco-terrorist" neighbours all at the same time...

[Guest]

Re: There's Still a Future for Dirty Oil...

That's pretty funny. :p :p :p

I was going to send him two barrels of bitumen and a couple of wicks, so he could get off the grid and enrage his "eco-terrorist" neighbours all at the same time...