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  • Conoco-Phillips stock price

    It is worth to repeat the analysis done for ExxonMobile for another oil company (for more details about oil price and CPI see my blog http://inflationusa.blogspot.com/). ConocoPhillips is a good candidate, as mentioned by nero3.
    In a sense, company name is irrelevant.


    This is the approach that is important. One might try any company and foresee when the price will go up or down, except those companies which do not follow the link to the difference (core CPI-CPI). If you find one, please let me know and I’ll try to invent something else. I hope that the forecast at a 5-year horizon for stock prices is a valuable asset itself.
    As discussed in my previous thread for the price of XOM, the difference between core CPI and headline CPI (here and below seasonally adjusted index) can be approximated by three straight lines: before 1980, between 1980 and 2000, and after 2001. Figure 1 illustrates this concept. The core CPI is the headline CPI less food and energy. Therefore, the difference is inherently related to the price index for energy, as demonstrated in Figure 2.

    The link between the price for energy and consumer price index allows suggesting that stock prices related to energy might be driven by the difference between the core and headline CPI.

    ConocoPhillips (COP) is aslo a typical representative of energy industry and the company with a major weight in S&P 500. We borrowed monthly prices from COP from Yahoo finance -
    http://finance.yahoo.com/q/hp?s=COP&...=17&f=2009&g=m

    Figure 3 displays two curves - historical (close) price for ConocoPhillips stocks (black line) and the difference between the core CPI and headline CPI between 1982 and 2009. The latter is scaled by the following function:

    COP(t) =(-4)*(core CPI- CPI) + 90 (1)

    where COP(t) is the predicted COP price which fits two curves between 2000 and 2008. There is no fit before 2000, however. At first glance, one might assume that the difference provides no information about the evolution of the price for COP. This is not a right assumption. Figure 1 shows that linear trend before 2000 was a positive one and after 2000 – negative. So, it is reasonable to suggest that the sign of slope in (1) should be changed to an opposite one: +4. Free term in (1) is another issue – it may change randomly. After reversing the sign and calibrating relevant amplitude and level between 1980 and 2001 by the function:

    COP(t) = (+4)*(core CPI- CPI) + 0; from 1980 to 2000 (2)

    we obtain a much better fit as depicted in Figure 4.

    Now we can conclude that the difference between the core CPI and the headline CPI is a very good approximation of the evolution of the price of energy-related stocks (COP and XOM), except short periods of spike-like behavior. The spikes are definitely related to stock split in 1985 and 2005. Later on we will process COP price adjusted for dividents and stock splits.

    Figure 5 shows the most recent period between 2000 and 2009. The fit between the observed and predicted (from the CPI) price is remarkable. Although, this is not a fundamental finding, because the CPI includes the price index for energy. To some extent, we correlate the price index for energy and energy stock price.

    The fundamental findings are as follows:
    1. During the short periods of transition between linear trends, as shown in Figure 3, the price for energy-related stocks (for example, COP) suffers a strong fall! ( Watch the next turn in the CPI trend!) It might be induced by an elevated volatility in the CPI associated with the transitions.

    2. The dependence of the price for energy-related stocks on the difference between core CPI and CPI currently likely undergoes a transformation from a negative factor (-4) to a positive one (+4) (see Figure 1)

    3. Because the difference (core CPI- CPI) will be positive during the next 5 to 10 years, COP stock price is likely to grow despite the price index for energy will be growing at lower rate than the core CPI (see Figure 2).

    4. A new rally will likely start by the end of the current transition period.


    Figure 1. The difference between core CPI and headline CPI as a function of time. One can distinguish three lengthy periods of quasi-linear behavior. Since the second half of 2008, the difference has been suffering a transition to a new linear trend with a positive slope.


    Figure 2. The difference between the core CPI and the index for energy is similar to that between the core CPI and CPI in Figure 1.


    Figure 3. Historical (close) price for COP (black line) and the difference between the core CPI and headline CPI between 1982 and 2009. The latter is scaled by the following function: -4*(core CPI- CPI) + 90, in order to fit two curves between 2001 and 2009. Two major spikes in the COP curve are related to stock splits in 1985 and 2005.


    Figure 4. Historical (close) price for COP (black line) and the difference between the core CPI and headline CPI between 1970 and 2009. The latter is scaled by the following time dependent function (+4)*(core CPI-CPI) + 0, between 1980 and 2001; (-4)*(core CPI- CPI) + 90, between 2001 and 2009.


    Figure 5. Comparison of the observed and predicted price for COP stock between 2000 and 2009

    There exist also "close price adjusted for dividents and splits". Let's consider it as a new time series to model. Preliminary results are presented in Figure 6 and 7 . The adjusted time series demonstrates much better fit between the observed and predicted prices. There is no changes to the text in the previous post. The only correction is related to the empirical relationships. Now:

    COP =(-6)*(core CPI- CPI) + 80 ; from 1998 to 2009
    COP = (+3)*(core CPI- CPI) - 5 ; from 1980 to 1998

    So, the next trend guarantees the rate of COP growth two times larger than that of the difference between the core CPI and the headline CPI.


    Figure 6. Historical (close) price for COP (black line) and the difference between the core CPI and headline CPI between 1980 and 2009.


    Figure 7. Comparison of the observed and predicted price for COP stock between 2000 and 2009
    Last edited by ikitov; May 17, 2009, 09:13 AM.

  • #2
    Re: Conoco-Phillips stock price

    doesn't all of this simply mean that if you can predict the price of oil you can probably predict the price of COP?

    jim

    Comment


    • #3
      Re: Conoco-Phillips stock price

      doesn't all of this simply mean that if you can predict the price of oil you can probably predict the price of COP?
      I would like you to read more carefully. XOM's and COP's stock price grow in both cases - when oil price grows at a higher rate than CPI and at a lower rate as well. So, the stock price is effectively independent on the direction of oil price (the price index for energy) deviation from the CPI. In that sence, you need to know the trend in the difference between the core and headline CPI and when you know the current trend you can easily predict the stocks' movement.

      Interestingly, XOM's and COP's price falls during the periods of transition between trends. So, watch the change in the current trend.


      And finally. Can you really predict oil price at a five-year horizon?

      I can:
      http://inflationusa.blogspot.com/sea...el/oil%20price

      Comment


      • #4
        Re: Conoco-Phillips stock price

        I would suggest that COP and inflation are co-related (eg. relation between height of husband and wife, midgets tend not to marry 6 ft.+ basketball stars). Knowing one, you can readily predict the other with some degree of accuracy.

        Unfortunately, neither COP nor inflation is known in the future, both are unknown and unknowable. In addition, some companies will suffer a fate escaped by their competitors, and therefore fail general trends (eg. husband dies, no longer able to co-relate husband-wife heights).

        However, there appears to be 2 Factors, with 3 levels of Factor 1 possible, confounded by a second Factor with 2 levels, for a total of 6 possible scenarios:

        Factor 1: Stock price will:
        • Go up
        • Go sideways
        • Go down

        Factor 2: Stock price volatility will be:
        • High
        • Low

        If you have an investment strategy for each of these 6 scenarios, plus a transition method to move from current zone to the next future zone (30 possible transitions), and a way to detect where you are currently (up to 5 isolating test methods, with a confirming 6th test), and where you are going next (up to 6 methods).

        All you have to do is follow your defined plan, detect if it is working adequately (1 method), or adjust the plans so they are improved to the necessary degree on a timely basis.

        That's up to a total of 49 sub-systems, and you are complete.

        Anyone what to try this suggested approach?
        Last edited by Glenn Black; May 17, 2009, 10:02 AM.

        Comment


        • #5
          Re: Conoco-Phillips stock price

          Funny. I have presented a full and accurate description of XOM's and COP's price since 1980. Predicted and observed prices evolve in sync. The predicted time series is based on measured deviation between core CPI and headline CPI. Moreover, at 5-year horizon everything is also clear.
          Why do I need 49 other scenarios when everything necessary is here?
          In other word, when one variable is well predicted using another one, nobody needs a third party variable.

          Comment


          • #6
            Re: Conoco-Phillips stock price

            Originally posted by ikitov View Post
            Funny. I have presented a full and accurate description of XOM's and COP's price since 1980. Predicted and observed prices evolve in sync. The predicted time series is based on measured deviation between core CPI and headline CPI. Moreover, at 5-year horizon everything is also clear.
            Why do I need 49 other scenarios when everything necessary is here?
            In other word, when one variable is well predicted using another one, nobody needs a third party variable.
            so should we be buying now? just let us all know when to go long and when to short XOM and COP and make all rich! who needs gold!
            jim

            Comment


            • #7
              Re: Conoco-Phillips stock price

              It was only two days ago when I found the link between XOM's stock price and (core CPI - CPI ) . So, I would appreciate is you could repeat what I have done. Just check if I made mistakes.

              ALso, the current period is a volatile one. It is difficult to say when it ends. A year or 24 months? In the short-run, oil price will go up to $80 in the end of 2008. XOM's should also recover a bit from current fall.

              In couple years the new trend will be sustainable to be absolutely sure about investments.

              As a matter of fact, I am a (geo-) physicist. So, I have no clue what does mean "short" and "long" , both theoretically and in practice. Economics my hobby not the profession where one earns money.

              As an alternative, if you could provide a better description of XOM and COP price evolution since 1985, I resign.

              Comment


              • #8
                Re: Conoco-Phillips stock price

                Originally posted by ikitov View Post
                Funny. I have presented a full and accurate description of XOM's and COP's price since 1980. Predicted and observed prices evolve in sync. The predicted time series is based on measured deviation between core CPI and headline CPI. Moreover, at 5-year horizon everything is also clear.
                Why do I need 49 other scenarios when everything necessary is here?
                In other word, when one variable is well predicted using another one, nobody needs a third party variable.
                tough crowd here, eh? itulip's not so easy so spam as it looks... or break into with mechanical 'theory of the future'. we've noticed gov't plays a big role in prices... any model that does not factor in gov't is plain silly.

                back testing prices against a model? all that tells you is your model worked before, not that it ever will again. to get respect here say, 'this will go up or down within this range for such & such reason at this time over this time period'. we'll check back in a few years... see if you were right. after you've done that successfully a dozen times over ten yrs... a couple of misses allowed... you'll have cred, too. but... even so you still have to convince us you know how to quantify all the variables that keep on changing as the world changes... your model will predict the cpi when the dollar gets real competition? with peak oil approaching? good luck. why not just say as itulip does, 'all roads lead to inflation' and leave it at that? then pick what will and won't do well in an inflationary world?

                Comment


                • #9
                  Re: Conoco-Phillips stock price

                  I did not, do not, and will not even try to convince anybody in anything. I just present quantitative links. Not more. As I could guess, such empirical links as presented, if valid, do not depend on opinons.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Re: Conoco-Phillips stock price

                    Originally posted by ikitov View Post
                    I did not, do not, and will not even try to convince anybody in anything. I just present quantitative links. Not more. As I could guess, such empirical links as presented, if valid, do not depend on opinons.
                    so when you say...

                    Funny. I have presented a full and accurate description of XOM's and COP's price since 1980. Predicted and observed prices evolve in sync. The predicted time series is based on measured deviation between core CPI and headline CPI. Moreover, at 5-year horizon everything is also clear.
                    Why do I need 49 other scenarios when everything necessary is here?
                    In other word, when one variable is well predicted using another one, nobody needs a third party variable.
                    you're not trying to convince anyone that you 'have presented a full and accurate description of XOM's and COP's price since 1980' and that 'Predicted and observed prices evolve in sync' and 'The predicted time series is based on measured deviation between core CPI and headline CPI' and so on?

                    c'mon. if you're not asking us a question then you're making an assertion... and if you're defending your assertion against our skepticism you are trying to convince us to buy into it.

                    tip for newbies... first try to learn what we already know before trying to teach us something new. the earth is not flat, the sun does not revolve around it, and oil co. stock prices cannot be predicted 5 yrs in advance by calculations of the cpi or anything else. if they could be, start a hedge fund, go raise 100 million bucks & go get rich. why waste your time here?

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Re: Conoco-Phillips stock price

                      You are right. I give up.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Re: Conoco-Phillips stock price

                        FYI
                        This thread is cited by Google Finance among blogs for ConocoPhillips
                        http://www.google.com/finance?q=cop

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Re: Conoco-Phillips stock price

                          I think you can safely buy COP. The correction ended last Friday, I can smell it. This week the Dow Jones index will move up again.
                          I like COP. However, they will perform poor, in the event of a 1982 type recovery.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Re: Conoco-Phillips stock price

                            Ikitov,

                            You say you can predict oil prices.

                            Please post some of these predictions.

                            I cannot easily find any such thing on your blog.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Re: Conoco-Phillips stock price

                              Originally posted by c1ue View Post
                              Ikitov,

                              You say you can predict oil prices.

                              Please post some of these predictions.

                              I cannot easily find any such thing on your blog.
                              he doesn't claim he can predict the oil price in the future, but in the past.

                              Comment

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