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Welcome to the hotel california 401K (you can never leave!)

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  • Welcome to the hotel california 401K (you can never leave!)

    Glad I junked mine when I did!


    http://articles.moneycentral.msn.com...sh.aspx?page=1

    Investors trying to pull cash out of their retirement plans, or simply replace the weaker options, are finding their money trapped even as their balances dwindle

    Individual investors might not even be aware of some behind-the-scenes maneuvers causing liquidity problems in their retirement plans. Many funds offered in 401(k) plans lend their portfolio holdings to other investors, receiving in exchange collateral that they invest in normally safe, liquid holdings.
    The aim is often to generate a small but relatively reliable return that can help offset fund expenses. But in recent months, many of the collateral investments have gone haywire, prompting money managers to restrict retirement plans' withdrawals from the lending funds.
    Investors in the Principal U.S. Property Separate Account said they understood the risk of losses but didn't think their money could be locked up for months or years. Most participants in the 15,000 plans holding the fund haven't been able to make any withdrawals or transfers since late September.

    "To sell property at inappropriately low prices in order to generate cash for a few would hurt the majority of investors and violate our fiduciary obligations," said Terri Hale, a spokeswoman for Principal Financial Group (PFG, news, msgs), the fund's parent. The fund, which had $4.3 billion in net assets at the end of April, still is making distributions for death, disability, hardship and retirement at normal retirement age.


    As of April 28, redemption requests that had yet to be honored totaled nearly $1.1 billion, or roughly 26% of the fund's net assets. Principal doesn't anticipate that it will make any distributions to investors who have requested redemptions until late 2009 or beyond, Hale said. Meanwhile, the fund continues to fall, declining 25% in the 12 months ending April 30.

  • #2
    Re: Welcome to the hotel california 401K (you can never leave!)

    Originally posted by jtabeb View Post
    Glad I junked mine when I did!
    Im curious that if you make a withdrawal request at a specific date, does that essentially "freeze" your account, or do they only give you the amount the account is worth when the withdrawal actually takes place?

    For example, say you requested $1,000 on 09/01/2008 but they don't process the request until 06/01/2009 and now your account is only worth $250. Do you get the $1,000 or do they only give you $250? If it was the latter, oh boy would I be livid...
    Every interest bearing loan is mathematically impossible to pay back.

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    • #3
      Re: Welcome to the hotel california 401K (you can never leave!)

      http://articles.moneycentral.msn.com...your-401k.aspx

      I've long maintained that the 401(k) program had been corrupted by conflicting interests. Company management wants to encourage people to spend way too much money on stock and bond products. Employees often have few options and poor ones at that. It's almost worth quitting every few years just to get control of retirement assets.

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      • #4
        Re: Welcome to the hotel california 401K (you can never leave!)

        I found out recently that I could pull out 90 percent of the money I had in a life insurance fund without penalty or taxes... so I did...

        If funds do things like this, they will cause, not prevent, a run on almost everything. Basically, even if you have to pay taxes on gains, if you lose control like this, I do not think it is worthwhile.

        For the last three years, and for the next few years of chaos, I am spending all my time and money on getting future expenses down. Energy efficiency, household improvements lowering insurance rates, low flush Toto toilets, vegetable garden under Aluminet shadecloth, elastomeric roof, solar water heater. Photovoltaics in 2011.

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        • #5
          Re: Welcome to the hotel california 401K (you can never leave!)

          Originally posted by ricket View Post
          Im curious that if you make a withdrawal request at a specific date, does that essentially "freeze" your account, or do they only give you the amount the account is worth when the withdrawal actually takes place?

          For example, say you requested $1,000 on 09/01/2008 but they don't process the request until 06/01/2009 and now your account is only worth $250. Do you get the $1,000 or do they only give you $250? If it was the latter, oh boy would I be livid...
          I'm no pension expert but I would have to believe it's the latter. What would be the point of freezing your account if they still had the liability to you based on what day you said you wanted to sell?

          Yes it's sad but you would get to watch your retirement account slowly drain off over time until they say, "....and it's gone!"

          Comment


          • #6
            Re: Welcome to the hotel california 401K (you can never leave!)

            Originally posted by CanuckinTX View Post
            I'm no pension expert but I would have to believe it's the latter. What would be the point of freezing your account if they still had the liability to you based on what day you said you wanted to sell?

            Yes it's sad but you would get to watch your retirement account slowly drain off over time until they say, "....and it's gone!"
            Exactly, so that seems like a conflict of interest...

            "Whoops, even though we knew your account was probably going to go down, we held on to it anyways so we could make sure we paid the banksters off first"
            Every interest bearing loan is mathematically impossible to pay back.

            Comment


            • #7
              Re: Welcome to the hotel california 401K (you can never leave!)

              Originally posted by ricket View Post
              Exactly, so that seems like a conflict of interest...

              "Whoops, even though we knew your account was probably going to go down, we held on to it anyways so we could make sure we paid the banksters off first"

              The managers of the funds get a fee based on the value of assets under management. No conflict there.:eek:

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              • #8
                Re: Welcome to the hotel california 401K (you can never leave!)

                I'm glad I got out my 401(k) in 2006. Paying a 10% penalty plus current taxes looks cheap in retrospect.

                OK, so J6P's retirement funds might not be available. His credit card limits are being dramatically reduced -- with much more just around the corner. Unemployment is climbing. Unemployment benefits for many will be running out soon. No more ability to draw on home equity lines.

                Basically, if you lose your job and don't have significant (unencumbered) savings, you're screwed.

                Comment


                • #9
                  Re: Welcome to the hotel california 401K (you can never leave!)

                  For the last few years I have been patiently waiting for them to come out with a "retirement fund holiday" where people who need the money can withdraw it penalty free due to the poor economy. I heard some talk of this back in the fall but then nothing else. Personally, I lack the cash outside of retirement I may need to survive the next few years. Anyone see a chance this will happen?

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                  • #10
                    Re: Welcome to the hotel california 401K (you can never leave!)

                    Originally posted by CanuckinTX View Post
                    I'm no pension expert but I would have to believe it's the latter. What would be the point of freezing your account if they still had the liability to you based on what day you said you wanted to sell?

                    Yes it's sad but you would get to watch your retirement account slowly drain off over time until they say, "....and it's gone!"

                    Stop it. I still laugh:p

                    This was the best.



                    03-30-09, 01:59 PM
                    CanuckinTX
                    iTulip Select Premium Member
                    Join Date: Dec 2006
                    Posts: 111


                    Re: Bogus 401(k) - Any Advice?

                    Quote:
                    Originally Posted by jimmygu3

                    I also have a lot of Merk Hard Currency (MERKX). "It normally invests in a basket of hard currency denominated investments composed of high quality, short-term money market instruments of countries pursuing sound monetary policy and indirectly in gold....


                    ....and it's gone.

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                    • #11
                      Re: Welcome to the hotel california 401K (you can never leave!)

                      Deleted - posted in wrong thread.

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