True test of Obama: Bain Capital

[Polish_Silver]

I'd say Obama could sink Romney easily by going public about the nature of Romney's Company "Bain Capital." It epitomizes the
worst elements of parasitic finance. (Any Hudson quotes on Bain?). If Obama does not attack Romney this way, doesn't it mean
he is protecting FIRE interests, even at the cost of his own re-election?

Amazingly, when I discuss Bain with Romney supporters, they are completely unfazed. It is some kind of confirmation bias, they can't believe the
system is that corrupt, so Romney can't be as evil as I claim.

I guess it's the same people who couldn't believe the extent of the lies the government told about Vietnam, Iraq, etc.

I grew up in a Lutheran church. One of the fundamental teachings is "original sin", and skepticism of the status quo.
You just start out assuming institutions are evil and then your only job is to explain the non-evil aspects.

[touchring]

Re: True test of Obama: Bain Capital

I'd say Obama could sink Romney easily by going public about the nature of Romney's Company "Bain Capital." It epitomizes the
worst elements of parasitic finance. (Any Hudson quotes on Bain?). If Obama does not attack Romney this way, doesn't it mean
he is protecting FIRE interests, even at the cost of his own re-election?

Amazingly, when I discuss Bain with Romney supporters, they are completely unfazed. It is some kind of confirmation bias, they can't believe the
system is that corrupt, so Romney can't be as evil as I claim.

I guess it's the same people who couldn't believe the extent of the lies the government told about Vietnam, Iraq, etc.

I grew up in a Lutheran church. One of the fundamental teachings is "original sin", and skepticism of the status quo.
You just start out assuming institutions are evil and then your only job is to explain the non-evil aspects.

The greatest evil is not Bain Capital or any wall Street banker or fund manager. Fund managers don't carry out war.

The greatest evil is the United States of America which started all the major wars in the last 60 years. Obama knows this well, that's why he is bent on dismantling this evil empire which along with Israel has been undermining his father's religious belief and kind, and for which occupies an unspeakable space in his heart.

[jpatter666]

Re: True test of Obama: Bain Capital

The greatest evil is not Bain Capital or any wall Street banker or fund manager. Fund managers don't carry out war.

The greatest evil is the United States of America which started all the major wars in the last 60 years. Obama knows this well, that's why he is bent on dismantling this evil empire which along with Israel has been undermining his father's religious belief and kind, and for which occupies an unspeakable space in his heart.

WHAT??

touchring, you just jumped the shark....either that, or I have to assume your account has been hacked.

[touchring]

Re: True test of Obama: Bain Capital

WHAT??

touchring, you just jumped the shark....either that, or I have to assume your account has been hacked.

I'm merely trying to place myself in the shoes of Obama and what he has been trying to achieve. Obama didn't win the Nobel Peace prize by doing nothing.

The truth hurts, of course, but there will always be empires. There is no such thing as a magnanimous empire.

Even when China tries to present itself as a benign empire, but how did China form in the first place? It was through wars and conquest. 2500 years ago, China was just another European like continent made up of a dozen or more countries until one country managed to conquer the rest. Germany tried to do the same in the world wars but failed. After that, China didn't stop expanding. Ask any Korean and Viet how many times China has invaded Korea and Vietnam in the last 2000 years of history. And in modern time, Tibet. The same with the British, Spanish and Russian empires.

If Obama wins another term and succeeds in dismantling the "US empire", another empire will take the place of the USA. Will it be for better or for the worst? Only time will tell, but I'm not optimistic.

[doom&gloom]

Re: True test of Obama: Bain Capital

dood, you must be smokin crak, because under Obama the number of bases around the world have EXPANDED, and we now hove troops in unreported conflicts in Afrika and a host of other places. Obama has not done SQUAT to dismantle 'empire', he has expanded it. The whol bring the troops home from Iraq was a show -- how many 'contractors' are still there? How many bases are we still running?

really, get a clue on this one.

[Raz]

Re: True test of Obama: Bain Capital

I'm merely trying to place myself in the shoes of Obama and what he has been trying to achieve. Obama didn't win the Nobel Peace prize by doing nothing.

The truth hurts, of course, but there will always be empires. There is no such thing as a magnanimous empire.

Even when China tries to present itself as a benign empire, but how did China form in the first place? It was through wars and conquest. 2500 years ago, China was just another European like continent made up of a dozen or more countries until one country managed to conquer the rest. Germany tried to do the same in the world wars but failed. After that, China didn't stop expanding. Ask any Korean and Viet how many times China has invaded Korea and Vietnam in the last 2000 years of history. And in modern time, Tibet. The same with the British, Spanish and Russian empires.

If Obama wins another term and succeeds in dismantling the "US empire", another empire will take the place of the USA. Will it be for better or for the worst? Only time will tell, but I'm not optimistic.

Obama IS nothing and Obama has DONE nothing. The Nobel Prizes for peace and economics have become politicized jokes.

"The greatest evil is the United States of America which started all the major wars in the last 60 years."

So the United States started the Korean War? World War II? No one despises the American "Empire" any more than me but you're crossing over into Oz with that statement.
If indeed the "truth hurts" then that statement sets you up for a migraine.

[jiimbergin]

Re: True test of Obama: Bain Capital

Obama IS nothing and Obama has DONE nothing. The Nobel Prizes for peace and economics have become politicized jokes.

"The greatest evil is the United States of America which started all the major wars in the last 60 years."

So the United States started the Korean War? World War II? No one despises the American "Empire" any more than me but you're crossing over into Oz with that statement.
If indeed the "truth hurts" then that statement sets you up for a migraine.

Raz, 60 years ago was 1952.

[BadJuju]

Re: True test of Obama: Bain Capital

Raz, 60 years ago was 1952.

You mean this isn't the 90s and 1932 wasn't 60 years ago?! Damnit!! Miss those days.

[Raz]

Re: True test of Obama: Bain Capital

Raz, 60 years ago was 1952.

Right you are. So let's check out wars since 1952.

1955:At the end of WWII the UK, US and the Soviet Union ALL agreed that Indochina belonged to France. Ho Chi Minh had proclaimed a People's Republic in Hanoi in 1945 but agreed to negotiate with the French for recognition of his government in the North. In early 1946 Ho won the election in north and central areas of Vietnam yet signed an agreement with the French allowing French troops to replace Nationalist Chinese and British troops who had occupied the country immediately after the surrender of Japan in return for recognition of his government in most of Vietnam. The French then proceeded to break their agreement with Ho Chi Minh and drove the Viet Minh out of Hanoi. Thus began the war that ended with the French defeat at Dien Bien Phu. The US was sucked into this mess by meeting French requests for arms and military supplies and the US government feared that if the agreed upon elections were held Ho Chi Minh would have easily won throughout the south so we supported the corrupt government of Diem when he cancelled the elections.

1965: Then came Kennedy and LBJ and the insane escalation, so although the United States didn't start the war in Vietnam we were clearly culpable in turning it into a far bigger and bloodier conflict than it ever would have been.

1956: Great Britain, France and Israel attack Egypt after Nasser expropriates the Suez Canal and stops all Israeli shipping. Eisenhower forces them to back down.

1967: Israel attacks Egypt and Syria after those nations allowed Palestinian terrorists use of their territory to conduct raids into Israel, increasing troops along their common borders with Israel, and closing the Straits of Tiran to Israeli ships thereby blockading the port of Eilat.

1973: Arab-Israeli War. We certainly didn't start that one.


1979: The Soviet Union invades Afghanistan beginning an eight-year war.

1990: Gulf War I. Due to the stupidity of April Glaspie and the US State Department under Pappa Bush, Sadaam Husein thinks he has a free option to occupy Kuwait.
He was wrong, but the US didn't start that war.

2003: Gulf War II. George W. Dumbass was clearly to blame for this debacle.

"The greatest evil is the United States of America which started all the major wars in the last 60 years."

False.

[jpatter666]

Re: True test of Obama: Bain Capital

I'm merely trying to place myself in the shoes of Obama and what he has been trying to achieve. Obama didn't win the Nobel Peace prize by doing nothing.

The truth hurts, of course, but there will always be empires. There is no such thing as a magnanimous empire.

Even when China tries to present itself as a benign empire, but how did China form in the first place? It was through wars and conquest. 2500 years ago, China was just another European like continent made up of a dozen or more countries until one country managed to conquer the rest. Germany tried to do the same in the world wars but failed. After that, China didn't stop expanding. Ask any Korean and Viet how many times China has invaded Korea and Vietnam in the last 2000 years of history. And in modern time, Tibet. The same with the British, Spanish and Russian empires.

If Obama wins another term and succeeds in dismantling the "US empire", another empire will take the place of the USA. Will it be for better or for the worst? Only time will tell, but I'm not optimistic.

Wars/Conflicts since WWII. Please feel free to mark up. http://www.sharpe-online.com/SOLR/a/book-abstract/14

Afghanistan: Civil War, 1989
Afghanistan: Soviet Invasion, 1979–1989
Afghanistan: U.S. and NATO Invasion, 2001–
Albania: Civil Conflict, 1990s
Algeria: Fundamentalist Struggle Since 1992
Algeria: War of National Liberation, 1954–1962
Angola: First War with UNITA, 1975–1992
Angola: Second War with UNITA, 1992–2002
Angola: Struggle over Cabinda Since 1960
Angola: War of National Liberation, 1961–1974
Argentina: Dirty War, 1960s–1970s
Argentina: Falklands/Malvinas War, 1982
Armenia: Nagorno-Karabakh Conflict, 1990s
Bolivia: Revolution, 1952
Bosnia: Civil War, 1992–1995
Brazil: Generals' Coup, 1964
Burkina Faso: Coups, 1966–1987
Burundi: Ethnic Strife, 1962–2006
Cambodia: Civil Wars, 1968–1998
Cambodia: U.S. Interventions, 1969–1973
Cambodia: Vietnamese Invasion, 1978–1979
Canada: Quebec Separatist Movement, 1960–1987
Central African Republic: Coups Since 1966
Chad: Civil Wars, 1960s–2000s
Chad: War with Libya, 1986–1987
Chile: Coup Against Allende, 1973
China: Border Clash with the Soviet Union, 1969
China: Border War with India, 1962
China: Civil War/Revolution, 1927–1949
China: Invasion of Tibet, 1950–1959
China: Quemoy and Matsu, 1954–1958
China: Tiananmen Violence, 1989
China: War with Vietnam, 1979
Colombia: Internal Insurgencies, 1970s–2000s
Comoros: Coups, 1980s
Congo, Democratic Republic of: Invasions and Internal Strife Since 1998
Congo, Democratic Republic of: Kabila Uprising, 1996–1997
Congo, Democratic Republic of: Post-Independence Wars, 1960–1965
Congo, Republic of: Civil Conflict, 1997
Croatia: War with Serbia, 1991–1995
Cuba: Bay of Pigs Invasion, 1961
Cuba: Communist Revolution, 1956–1959
Cuba: Missile Crisis, 1962
Cyprus: Communal Conflict Since 1955
Czechoslovakia: Coup, 1948
Czechoslovakia: Soviet Invasion, 1968
Djibouti: Civil Conflict, 1991–2000
Dominican Republic: Coup and U.S. Invasion, 1965
East Timor: Independence Struggle, 1974–2002
Ecuador: Border Dispute with Peru, 1941–1998
Egypt: Nasser Coup and Its Legacy, 1952–1970
Egypt: Sinai War, 1956
Egypt: War of Attrition, 1967–1970
El Salvador: Civil Wars, 1970s–1980s
El Salvador: Soccer War with Honduras, 1969
Eritrea: Border War with Ethiopia, 1998–2000
Eritrea: War for Independence, 1958–1991
Ethiopia: Civil War, 1978–1991
Ethiopia: Revolution, 1974–1978
Ethiopia: War with Somalia, 1977–1978
Fiji: Ethnic Conflict and Coups Since 1987
Georgia: Civil War, 1990s
Georgia: South Ossetia War with Russia, 2008
Germany: Berlin Crises, 1948–1949 and 1958–1962
Germany: East German Uprising, 1953
Ghana: Rawlings Coups, 1979–1981
Greece: Civil War, 1944–1949
Grenada: U.S. Invasion, 1983
Guatemala: Civil War, 1970s–1990s
Guatemala: Coup Against Arbenz, 1954
Guinea: Coup and Massacre, 2008–2009
Guinea-Bissau: Civil War, 1998–2000
Guinea-Bissau: War of National Liberation, 1962–1974
Guyana: Ethnic Conflict, 1960–1992
Haiti: Civil Conflict, 1990s–2000s
Hungary: Soviet Invasion, 1956
India: Ethnic and Separatist Violence in Assam Since 1979
India: Invasion of Goa, 1961
India: Jammu and Kashmir Violence Since 1947
India: Naxalite Maoist Uprising Since 1967
India: Nuclear Standoff with Pakistan Since 1998
India: Partition Violence, 1947
India: Sikh Uprising, 1970s and 1980s
India: War with Pakistan, 1965
India: War with Pakistan and Bangladeshi Independence, 1971
Indonesia: Aceh Separatist Conflict Since 1976
Indonesia: Communist and Suharto Coups, 1965–1966
Indonesia: Irian Jaya Separatist Conflict Since 1964
Indonesia: Wars of Independence, 1945–1949
Iran: Coup Against Mossadegh, 1953
Iran: Islamic Revolution, 1979
Iran: Nuclear Standoff Since 1979
Iran: War with Iraq, 1980–1988
Iraq: Gulf War, 1990–1991
Iraq: Kurdish Wars, 1961–2003
Iraq: Revolution and Coups, 1958–1968
Iraq: U.S. Invasion, 2003–
Ireland: The Troubles, 1968–1998
Israel: Attack on Iraqi Nuclear Reactor, 1981
Israel: Conflict with Hamas and Hezbollah, 2006
Israel: Palestinian Struggle Since 1948
Israel: Six-Day War, 1967
Israel: War of Independence, 1948–1949
Israel: Yom Kippur War, 1973
Italy: Anti-Mafia Campaign Since 1980
Ivory Coast: Civil Disorder, 1999–2004
Jordan: Civil War, 1970
Kenya: Mau Mau Uprising, 1952–1956
Kenya: Post-Election Violence, 2007–2008
Korea, North: Nuclear Standoff Since the 1990s
Korea, North: Seizure of the Pueblo, 1968
Korea, South: Invasion by the North, 1950–1953
Laos: Pathet Lao War, 1960s–1970s
Lebanon: Civil Conflict, 1958
Lebanon: Civil War, 1975–1990
Liberia: Anti-Taylor Uprising, 1998–2003
Liberia: Civil War, 1989–1997
Liberia: Doe Coup, 1980
Libya: Qaddafi Coup, 1969
Libya: U.S. Air Attacks, 1986
Macedonia: Ethnic Conflict, 1990s
Madagascar: Independence Movement and Coups, 1947–2008
Malaysia: Communist Uprising, 1948–1960
Mali: Ethnic and Political Conflict, 1968–1996
Mauritania: Coups Since 1978
Mexico: Drug War Since 2006
Mexico: Zapatista Uprising Since 1994
Mozambique: Renamo War, 1976–1992
Mozambique: War of National Liberation, 1961–1974
Myanmar (Burma): Civil Wars and Coups Since 1948
Namibia: War of National Liberation, 1966–1990
Nepal: Maoist Insurgency, 1996–2006
New Caledonia (France): Independence Struggle, 1970s–1990s
Nicaragua: Contra War, 1980s
Nicaragua: Revolution, 1970s
Niger: Ethnic and Political Conflict Since 1990
Nigeria: Biafra War, 1967–1970
Nigeria: Coups and Ethnic Unrest Since 1966
Pakistan: Taliban Conflict, 2004–
Palestine: First Intifada, 1987–1992
Palestine: Gaza Conflict, 2008–2009
Palestine: Second Intifada, 2000–2006
Panama: Torrijos Coup, 1969
Panama: U.S. Invasion, 1989
Papua New Guinea: Bougainville Independence Struggle, 1988–1998
Peru: Shining Path Rebellion, 1970s–1997
Philippines: Huk Rebellion, 1948–1953
Philippines: Moro Uprising Since 1972
Philippines: War on Islamic Militants Since 1990
Poland: Imposition of Martial Law, 1981–1983
Puerto Rico: Anti-U.S. Terrorism, 1934–1954
Romania: Fall of Ceausescu, 1989
Russia: Chechen Uprising Since 1994
Rwanda: Civil War and Genocide Since 1991
Serbia: Kosovo Secessionist Movement, 1990s
Sierra Leone: Civil Conflict, 1990–2002
Solomon Islands: Separatist and Ethnic Conflict, 1999–2003
Somalia: Civil War Since 1991
South Africa: Anti-Apartheid Struggle, 1948–1994
Soviet Union: Conflict with Iran over Azerbaijan, 1945–1946
Soviet Union: Conflict with Turkey, 1945–1953
Soviet Union: Downing of Korean Airliner, 1983
Spain: Basque Uprising Since 1959
Sri Lanka: Tamil Uprising, Late 1970s to 2009
Sudan: Civil Wars in South, 1955–1972; 1983–2005
Sudan: Conflict in Darfur Since 2002
Tajikistan: Civil War, 1990s
Thailand: Military Coup, 2006
Thailand: Muslim Rebellion, 2004–
Togo: Coups and Political Unrest, 1963–1990s
Turkey: Kurdish War Since 1984
Uganda: Anti-Amin Struggle, 1971–1979
Uganda: Civil Conflict Since 1983
United States: War on Terrorism, 1990s–
Uruguay: Tupumaro Uprising, 1967–1985
Uzbekistan: Conflict with Islamists Since 1999
Venezuela: Anti-Chávez Movement Since 1999
Vietnam: First Indochina War, 1946–1954
Vietnam: Second Indochina War, 1959–1975
Western Sahara: Polisario-Moroccan War Since 1975
Yemen: Civil War, 1960s–1980s
Zimbabwe: Anti-Mugabe Struggle Since 1983
Zimbabwe: Struggle for Majority Rule, 1965–1980

[doom&gloom]

Re: True test of Obama: Bain Capital

I'm merely trying to place myself in the shoes of Obama and what he has been trying to achieve. Obama didn't win the Nobel Peace prize by doing nothing.

The truth hurts, of course, but there will always be empires. There is no such thing as a magnanimous empire.

Even when China tries to present itself as a benign empire, but how did China form in the first place? It was through wars and conquest. 2500 years ago, China was just another European like continent made up of a dozen or more countries until one country managed to conquer the rest. Germany tried to do the same in the world wars but failed. After that, China didn't stop expanding. Ask any Korean and Viet how many times China has invaded Korea and Vietnam in the last 2000 years of history. And in modern time, Tibet. The same with the British, Spanish and Russian empires.

If Obama wins another term and succeeds in dismantling the "US empire", another empire will take the place of the USA. Will it be for better or for the worst? Only time will tell, but I'm not optimistic.

I couldn't resist but to add this for your edification:

http://theeconomiccollapseblog.com/a...tely-shock-you

Read it and weep oh-great-Obama-cheerleader. and yes, I think Bush sucks as well, so don't even come back at me with that drivel. And no, I don't think Romney will be an improvement except... he may reduce all the uncertainty of wondering what DC will do nect to small biz. I actually expect more of the same if romney wins.

But please... don't embarrass yourself cheering such a loser around here.

[touchring]

Re: True test of Obama: Bain Capital

I apologize on my quote "all the major wars in the last 60 years". That's the impression I get, Vietnam War, Gulf War 1, Gulf War 2... Of course all the major wars in the last 60 years didn't amount to a single WWII.

My rant may not be totally factual but the impression from a third party point of view.

We can read it both ways, but didn't Bush create the problems in the first place? No, the empire created the problem. Bush didn't create OBL.

Iran is only a year or so from making nukes. If Obama has not dismantled the empire, then he has truly scrwed it up.

[Raz]

Re: True test of Obama: Bain Capital

I apologize on my quote "all the major wars in the last 60 years". That's the impression I get, Vietnam War, Gulf War 1, Gulf War 2... Of course all the major wars in the last 60 years didn't amount to a single WWII.

My rant may not be totally factual but the impression from a third party point of view.

We can read it both ways, but didn't Bush create the problems in the first place? No, the empire created the problem. Bush didn't create OBL.

Iran is only a year or so from making nukes. If Obama has not dismantled the empire, then he has truly scrwed it up.

I wasn't angry with you - only shocked. But it takes a lot more courage and intellect to apologize than it does to argue to no good end or to give the silent treatment.
You just went upwards several knotches in my eyes.

I've had a gut full of the Washington works for Washington crowd (RepubliCrats) since 1996, and I'd lay the blame for our current mess 60% republican and 40% democrat solely because of the eight-year reign (actually six) of George W. Dumbass. Prior to his presidency I would have reversed those assigned percentages of blame.

The empire was an unnatural result of the Cold War. At the end of World War II we completely demobilized a military of more than 11,000,000 men under arms while Stalin only cut the Soviet military down to 5,500,000 from more than 12,000,000. Soviet aggression in Eastern Europe forced us to maintain a large peacetime military for the first time in our history.
But the BIG problem came after the collapse of the Soviet Union when our government refused to dismantle the empire but saw it as a way to maintain the "exorbitant privilege" of the Dollar Reserve. This will almost certainly come to a very bad end.

We need a Third Party in order to have any hope of an orderly end to this unsustainable situation. But that takes money, and a lot of it. And I don't see the type of honorable men who could lead such a change ever raising that kind of money - unless they were willing to also sell out, which brings us right back to the same place as now.

[jpatter666]

Re: True test of Obama: Bain Capital

I wasn't angry with you - only shocked. But it takes a lot more courage and intellect to apologize than it does to argue to no good end or to give the silent treatment.
You just went upwards several knotches in my eyes.

I've had a gut full of the Washington works for Washington crowd (RepubliCrats) since 1996, and I'd lay the blame for our current mess 60% republican and 40% democrat solely because of the eight-year reign (actually six) of George W. Dumbass. Prior to his presidency I would have reversed those assigned percentages of blame.

The empire was an unnatural result of the Cold War. At the end of World War II we completely demobilized a military of more than 11,000,000 men under arms while Stalin only cut the Soviet military down to 5,500,000 from more than 12,000,000. Soviet aggression in Eastern Europe forced us to maintain a large peacetime military for the first time in our history.
But the BIG problem came after the collapse of the Soviet Union when our government refused to dismantle the empire but saw it as a way to maintain the "exorbitant privilege" of the Dollar Reserve. This will almost certainly come to a very bad end.

We need a Third Party in order to have any hope of an orderly end to this unsustainable situation. But that takes money, and a lot of it. And I don't see the type of honorable men who could lead such a change ever raising that kind of money - unless they were willing to also sell out, which brings us right back to the same place as now.

Same here touchring, but as you just got reminded, not possible to make general statements in THIS crowd! :-) Hey, at least the response is far more mild and civilized than 99.9% of the forums I wander on.....

I think there has been an "American Empire" in varying form ever since the Manifest Destiny period in the US and one could make a solid argument for it starting with the Monroe Doctrine. Rome was an empire well before the advent of the Caesars -- that just made it formal; even Athens had an empire of sorts.

There have been multiple arguments over the virtues and vices of the Pax Americana. Unfortunately, it's speculation as to whether things would have been better or worse. But I'll give the leadership this -- they brought the Cold War to a close without us all being reduced to radioactive dust. There was a time when many people thought that outcome impossible.

[c1ue]

Re: True test of Obama: Bain Capital

The empire was an unnatural result of the Cold War. At the end of World War II we completely demobilized a military of more than 11,000,000 men under arms while Stalin only cut the Soviet military down to 5,500,000 from more than 12,000,000. Soviet aggression in Eastern Europe forced us to maintain a large peacetime military for the first time in our history.

So then the Spanish American war was due to Spanish aggression? Because that's how the US wound up with Guam, Guantanamo, Puerto Rico and a number of other new territories.

You might also read up on the War of 1812: a war started by the US thinking it could snatch Canada while Napoleon was menacing Britain.

The narrative that the US is some humble, quiet, isolated power that was forced against its will into the world stage - totally false.