X-Pat Thread

[lakedaemonian]

Re: Ex-Pat Thread

A friend of mine just moved to Ensanada. The house was burglarized the same day he moved in. They took everything. They pulled the bars off the window to get in. The police think they used a truck.

Yeah, I'm not an expert on Central America...but some folks who I trust who have a wealth of experience have mentioned that the narcocrime issue is spilling pretty heavily into Central America.....I think El Salvador and Honduras are battling for murder capital of the world at the moment.....and it may be spilling into Costa Rica.

I reckon there's plenty of nice places to emigrate and retire to in Central America.....but I also reckon they've got their fair share of rather bad places as well.

[shiny!]

Re: Ex-Pat Thread

I think we have already established that shiny looks better with lipstick than you do.

LOL'd so hard I startled all the cats :-)

Crime is something to consider. The websites like internationalliving.com gloss over all the negatives while painting rosy pictures. I don't want that. Beyond crime in the present day, how will foreigners fare if the economy crashes in a very poor country where you don't blend in? I don't want to feel like a target.

That said, there are certainly cities in the USA where I wouldn't want to live, and neighborhoods where I wouldn't set foot. The neighborhood i live in right now isn't so hot. I don't go walking at night.

Portugal sounds interesting. So does Greece, actually. I feel more at home in the European culture rather than the Latin i.e. Spanish x Native American culture. This is not intended as a slight against anybody. I just think that I will always feel and be treated like a foreigner in Central and most of South America.

[wayiwalk]

Re: Ex-Pat Thread

The most dangerous countries:



http://www.theatlantic.com/internati...n-maps/274593/

Anywhere there are people, there will trouble when times get hard.
I think the best solution is to live in a geographically isolated country that is presently safe, within a local community of good people who accept you, and are near self-sufficiency, i.e., farmers.

Europe is too diverse.
New Zealand might be good, but I don't know much about it.
The US is my choice, partly because of familiarity and the social structure, but I wouldn't want to live in the cities.

Glad to know Greenland is safe! Maybe just a few Viking ghosts to threaten you.

[doom&gloom]

Re: Ex-Pat Thread

Shiny,

Be careful with selecting Central America...while there are some good sized clusters of American expats there and it's an affordable retirement region for Americans(and others) there are also clusters of considerable crime.....off the charts violent crime.

New Zealand WAS a fantastic destination for middle class emigration from the US, but that largely ended a number of years ago.

In 2000, the average home in NZ was approx $50,000USD, today the average NZ home price in USD is approx $325,000USD.

It's a fantastic place that seems to combine a fair bit of independent entrepreneurial spirit with a fair bit of social welfare...not perfect, but it works OK.

Although I would rate NZ a good bit behind the likes of Canada and Australia as resilient/flexible countries for the difficult period ahead.

If I was a young man without a family I'd probably look hard at Brazil.

I know it's gotten more expensive....but it was an ideal location for emigration about 5 years ago.....but I think looking very long term, Brazil might well be in a position not too different from the US circa 1900....warts and all.

I would not recommend Afghanistan as an emigration destination, but I certainly know a good number of folks making the jump to Dubai again.........3.5 years ago people were leaving Dubai like Saigon 1975....that seems to have reversed course. Dubai's gone crazy town again.

I first started looking at land in SA due to experience Americans were having there with large soy & cotton plantations. But I gave up the idea because initial investment was too expensive and the land used LOTS of petro-based inputs to make things grow. In fact, it was Brasil that eventually pushed me into Uruguay by happenstance. Uruguay is in kind of a 'sweet spot' in the rain and latitude arena for growing crops, and double-cropping is easy most years. In comparison to most places it is a no-brainer once you understand what you are doing.

I too would LOVE to go to Brasil. I would even go now as an 'old man' were it not for family. Brasilians as a whole are very friendly and welcoming. Sure they have a lot of crime there, but like anywhere else, stay out of those areas and you can be okay.

And for anyone ever thinking of learning spanish with an eye to maybe move to Brasil, learn portugues first, and the spanish comes very easy. Learn spanish first, and the portugues does not come so easy. trust me on this one.

[doom&gloom]

Re: Ex-Pat Thread

Glad to know Greenland is safe! Maybe just a few Viking ghosts to threaten you.

it's funny how entire countries get safe/not safe ratings when nothing could be further from the truth. Some parts of Mexico are extremely safe, others not so. Just like no white person in their sane mind would walk the streets of bombed out Detroit at night (or even days I might think), but would have no issue walking my 'hood any day or night ever. Parts of Buenos Aires are downright scary, others no problem.

[Sharky]

Re: Ex-Pat Thread

New Zealand might be good, but I don't know much about it.

I moved from the US to NZ about 6 yrs ago. One of the best (and most difficult) things I've ever done for myself and my family.

Would be happy to tell you more about the pros and cons, if you're interested.

[doom&gloom]

Re: Ex-Pat Thread

I moved from the US to NZ about 6 yrs ago. One of the best (and most difficult) things I've ever done for myself and my family.

Would be happy to tell you more about the pros and cons, if you're interested.

Absolutely update us to all the pros and cons, I for one would love to hear it!

[BadJuju]

Re: Ex-Pat Thread

Sorry, but I don't want Sharky, another name for the corrupt Saruman, to spread the black word of his dark lord Sauron here.

[seanm123]

Re: Ex-Pat Thread

I have family in NZ, it is an enchanting place besides the fact the Aussies treat the NZ folks like second class.

[Sharky]

Re: Ex-Pat Thread

Absolutely update us to all the pros and cons, I for one would love to hear it!

People talk a lot about NZ from a beauty perspective. For me, while that's a wonderul side-benefit, it's one of the least important in the bigger scheme of things.

Pros:

1. Great people. This is really #1 for me.
2. English-speaking, Western culture. Culture is a huge part of our lives. Moving into a relatively familiar one like NZ was hard enough; moving into a truly foreign one would be torture, particularly if you have a family.
3. No capital gains taxes
4. No inheritance taxes or gift duties
5. No taxes on the sale of pure precious metals (0.999+)
6. Low property taxes, based on the value of the land only, not on improvements
7. Well-managed immigration policies (a pro if you get in; a con if you don't!)
8. Laws that respect individual rights in many areas: gambling and prostitution are legal, for example
9. Sane and fair legal system (you can buy a house in 24 hours, start-to-finish, with a 4-page contract; no million-dollar damage awards; fully Western-style court system, though with a British influence)
10. Income tax process is simple and understandable (short form with only about 40 "lines"; considered late 12 months from the due date)
11. Stable banking system (regular ratings are required by law; no deposit insurance that might otherwise encourage risky behavior by banks)
12. Central bank targets inflation alone, not unemployment -- which tends to keep the monetary system more stable
13. When moving here, there are no taxes or duties on your belongings (unlike Costa Rica, for example). I brought three 40 ft shipping containers full of stuff, and paid zero taxes; just a small agricultural inspection fee
14. Guns are legal, although they require permits and registration. Handgun ownership also requires membership in a pistol club and regular practice.
15. The country is full or farmers, and exports much of what it produces. In a crisis, food would be relatively available.
16. Relatively low violent crime rates, especially in rural areas, and especially on the South Island.
17. Strong "Popsicle factor" outside of the big cities. Great place to raise kids.
18. In 2010, NZ tied for first place with Denmark and Singapore as the least corrupt country in the world. The US ranked 22nd.
19. In 2011, NZ ranked 4th in the Heritage Foundation's Index of Economic Freedom, behind Hong Kong, Singapore and Australia. The US ranked 9th.
20. It's legal to own a still and to distill alcohol for personal use. You can also grow your own tobacco if you're so inclined (both are not legal in the US).
21. A strong and growing wine industry, producing good quality products.
22. Police are actually helpful and pleasant.
23. Liberal broadcast standards on TV, although they vary somewhat by time of day. What you see on cable TV in the US is largely available on over-the-air TV in NZ.
24. High-quality health care is readily available, although the system is quirky in places.
25. Non-jet-based domestic air travel involves no intrusive security checks. No x-rays or metal detectors; just walk on the plane. The door to the cockpit is sometimes open during flight.

Cons:

1. Partially socialized medicine, which is offset in part by a parallel private system. Having lived with it a while, it's not all bad, though. Cost to see a GP is about NZ$35 (US$28) for 15 minutes. Most drugs are NZ$3 for a 30-day course. Emergency treatment is free, and so on.
2. Drugs are illegal. Penalties are fairly light for MJ use/possession/growing, but extreme for stronger drugs like heroin or LSD (life in prison for manufacture or supply). Amphetamines (called "P") present the biggest drug problem here.
3. Goods and Services Tax of 15% (like a national sales tax)
4. Welfare state policies (welfare is generally too easy to get)
5. Prices have gone up quite a bit in the last 10 to 15 yrs. Not cheap any more, but not horribly expensive, either
6. Shipping in and out of the country by air is expensive
7. Income taxes. Rates range from 10.5% (under NZ$10,500) to 33% (over $70,000).
8. It takes 5 yrs before you can apply for NZ citizenship.

There's more, but that's a start. Happy to answer questions if I can.

[Sharky]

Re: Ex-Pat Thread

Sorry, but I don't want Sharky, another name for the corrupt Saruman, to spread the black word of his dark lord Sauron here.

Don't worry, I left the Dark Lord behind when I moved (used to work for Microsoft).

I have family in NZ, it is an enchanting place besides the fact the Aussies treat the NZ folks like second class.

Yes, and NZ folks treat Aussies the same way -- particularly in sports like Rugby. It's more a brother-like rivalry and teasing, though, than anything serious.

[BadJuju]

Re: Ex-Pat Thread

Nice write-up, Sharky! Back years ago, we all joked around a bit on here about moving to NZ because it sounded great.

[doom&gloom]

Re: Ex-Pat Thread

Ok, lots of positives! So what made you move to begin with?

[Sharky]

Re: Ex-Pat Thread

Ok, lots of positives! So what made you move to begin with?

The main thing was that my family and I decided we would like to try living out of the US for a while. My kids (twin boys) were 17 at the time, and in the post-911 world, we thought it would be an interesting and educational experience for all of us. We figured there was a good chance it wouldn't work out, in which case we would either try somewhere else or just move back. But we also figured that doing it half-assed wouldn't really give us an accurate picture, so we dove in with both feet.

A secondary issue, but not the main one for us back in 2005 when this all started, is that we lived in California (Silicon Valley), and we could see the light ahead from the oncoming train of increasing taxation, regulation and government intervention. The situation was already bad, and getting worse by the day. Better to get out the way before we got run over.

I expected all kinds of things to be different after we moved, but there were a bunch of things that surprised me -- one big one was how different the US looks from the outside, once you have some perspective. The impression that we Americans (and yes, I still and will always consider myself to be an American) have of ourselves is that we live in the freest country on the planet. iTulipers probably know better than most, but that's clearly not true.

Actually living in a place that's more free is an amazingly uplifting experience. It makes me appreciate how many immigrants to the US must have felt. It's something that hits you in a hundred ways; everything from being able to have chickens at my suburban home if I wanted to, to seeing carts on street corners and at the weekend open-air market, selling food they made in their kitchens at home. Or parades of costumed young kids filling the streets at Halloween with no police in sight. Or other kids racing down a hill at high-speed in homemade and totally unsafe (and immensely fun) go-karts. Several of the shows on TV made the immense censorship in the US suddenly obvious.

The area I live in reminds me of what the suburban US must have been like in the late 50s and early 60s. A few anecdotes: I've seen a woman leave her purse in a shopping cart at the grocery, with her wallet in full view, and walk to the other end of the store. I regularly see 5 or 6 yr old kids walking on the side of the street, by themselves. Most people don't lock the doors to their house at night (or ever); when friends come over, they often just walk in and announce themselves, without knocking. Police are known to help people change a flat tire. When a party gets too loud and someone complains, police quietly ask people to leave, and offer rides to those who are drunk; no arrests or tasers. It's common for people to leave valuables in unlocked cars without problems. Tellers at the bank know my name, and are actually friendly and will talk to me like I'm a real human. I wave to people on the street I know, and they wave back. Or, I had a guy just the other day who knocked on my door and asked if he could borrow a tool. A total stranger. I invited him in, found what he needed, he was very thankful, and then left.

Can you imagine most of those kinds of things in the US today? Anywhere? I realize part of it comes from living in a small town, but even so, I can't -- and I've certainly traveled around quite a bit.

[doom&gloom]

Re: Ex-Pat Thread

I think a lot of that happens still today in smal communities, especially in farming states. But certainly not in big cities. I live in a fairly affluent community where kids levae stuff around all the time and it does not walk off, but parents are still 'helicopter parents' nonetheless.

Whenever I go to Uruguay I always feel more free than in the US, which really makes me sad. Especially when you return, you always feel like you are running a gauntlet of security. I have asked Uruguayans how they feel about travel to the US and if they feel like a criminal when they arrive, and invariably they say yes. I show up in uruguay and get the obligatory stamp without a second look and I am on my way. This is not to say it is a 'better place', just a different place. However in that different place, you can smoke a joint without being hassled, drink a beer on the beach at 4Am without being arrested, and speed limits are mostly advisories. And my whole farming biz? I have never signed a contract with anyone about anything. Imagine trying to do that in the US?

I would love to live in the kind of place you live. I love it every time I am down on the farm in Uruguay. It's peaceful and so much less 'affluent' in that 'keep up with the Jones' aspect of life. The missus could never live in a small farm town, but it would suit me just fine.