The Real Reason for Paper Money

[Tet]

I know this isn't going to be viewed favorably by our mighty metal crowd, but here's the real reason for the switch to paper currency.



A large (approximately 8 feet in height) example of Yapese stone money (Rai) in the village of Gachpar





How'd you like to have to drag one of these along with you on your way to the liquor store in order to purchase a few cold ones this evening? From what I remember this stone wasn't even found on the Yap Islands but on some other island about a hundred miles away. You'd head off to that island and literally make money. I remember reading that upon transporting this Yap Coin if you dropped it in the ocean, you just mearly needed to tell people approximately where it was and it was still used as money. There's something to be said for paper money.

[zoog]

Re: The Real Reason for Paper Money

I know this isn't going to be viewed favorably by our mighty metal crowd, but here's the real reason for the switch to paper currency.
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I remember reading that upon transporting this Yap Coin if you dropped it in the ocean, you just mearly needed to tell people approximately where it was and it was still used as money. There's something to be said for paper money.

Next time I have to pay some bills, I'll just tell them I have a crate of gold doubloons approximately somewhere off the coast of Spain.:p

You could extend this argument to electronic money, eliminating the transportation and damage problems with paper money.

[DemonD]

Re: The Real Reason for Paper Money

I still remember reading somewhere the Native Americans in the western US were confounded on why all the gringos were so enamored with the yellowish flakes and rocks in the streams of the US west.

I also remember salt being more valuable than metals in Africa in the B.C. era.

I like the idea that currency is just like a share in a company, but it's a share in a government.

Turned bullish on dollars Tet? I think I have (I must be out of my mind).

[Tet]

Re: The Real Reason for Paper Money

I still remember reading somewhere the Native Americans in the western US were confounded on why all the gringos were so enamored with the yellowish flakes and rocks in the streams of the US west.

I also remember salt being more valuable than metals in Africa in the B.C. era.

If you want to have any chance at all of coming out ahead playing in the big casino, you've got to study the histories of money. Words that have something to do with money are even more telling. English Tally Sticks, Roman Denarius, Cowry, Pound Sterling, Peso, Chinese Paper Money, French Assignats, Colonial Script, Greenbacks, Stamps, Treasury Notes, Federal Reserve Notes and Bi-Metalism just to name a few. Of course understanding basic scams might be more helpful.

I like the idea that currency is just like a share in a company, but it's a share in a government.

Chartalism appears to be catching on.

Turned bullish on dollars Tet? I think I have (I must be out of my mind).

Uncle Buck has been held under his 200-day moving average since March of 2006, I would bet we hit 85 on the index before we break below 80, I would rather be selling Euros, Pounds, Roubles and Francs here as compared to buying more of them. The question has more to do with the price of crude as opposed to the value of the d0llar, if the d0llar buys more crude you've got a stronger Buck and if it doesn't you've got a weaker Buck. Does Crude head back up to $80 or does Crude head back down to $60 for a much due trip below it's 200-day moving average is the question to be asking. Seven year currency changes of direction are about as long as they run and Uncle Buck hit it's high in March of 2001.

[metalman]

Re: The Real Reason for Paper Money

despite my name, i agree with the itulip position... gold was only ever money because governments said it was. money is whatever you pay taxes with. period. plus, as i've said before, where am i gonna stick a gold coin to get gas out of the pump at the local exxon station?

[raja]

Re: The Real Reason for Paper Money

where am i gonna stick a gold coin to get gas out of the pump at the local exxon station?

Depends on how bad things get . . . .
That gold coin might trade for a bunch of government gas ration cards . . . or maybe a horse.

[Guest]

Re: The Real Reason for Paper Money

I see the conversation on this thread would have us believe that gold is imposed by governments as an indoctrinated form of "money"?

If it's a government imposed construct, why are so many people here collecting it?

Remark about government invention of gold as money suggests that the more sharp-minded observers here will see through the government hype surrounding this commodity, and understand the Government has brainwashed a sheep-like population to accept it as money for a lifetime's worth of their hard labors?

These "sheeple", or as I read them referred to commiseratingly as "Cows", are considered to have such a bovine degree of stupidity that even as they grow old and arthritic performing their jobs, they never have the smallest spark of intelligence to determine for themselves whether gold is a real (as opposed to Government scammed) compensation for their work?

Seems to me that's delegating a quite remarkable degree of stupidity to the "sheeple" and the "cows".

What I regard dubiously around here, because it risks being too self-congratulatory, is the very low regard for the intelligence of the general population around us, which some here suggest is so eternally dumb it cannot gain any real insights about what to understand as real money, even across the span of an entire generation.

A man is apparently such a wooden headed fool he's willing to labor like an ox for a lifetime and be too stupid to know if he's accepting plastic tokens or some material of more lasting value?

This exercise, calling people 'sheeple' or 'cows', goes to your head like a fine brandy, and we should beware of it - because of course by inference, it suggests those who recognize the Cows cannot be Cows themselves, so those few of us who are observers indirectly offer ourselves a giant pat on the back for being more than usually intelligent.

It's just my humble contribution to this discussion, but I think this notion that Gold is money only when government says it is, in delightful irony to this topic, is actually one of the less intelligent (and ahistorical) suggestions on this website.

Gold has been introduced as a medium of exchange for commerce since Sumerian times (2700 BC), and straight through into the Babylonian era (2000 BC and forward). The Sumerians didn't even formalize any central government, but used gold and silver as one of the mediums of barter nonetheless.

Hammurabi's Babylonian code of laws in the 1760's BC codifies the very first forms of government, and it is littered with references to gold and silver as money. Gold and silver money already existed 3700+ years ago - yet Hammurabi was barely inventing the first rudimentary forms of government!

If we see gold and silver clearly in evidence as actual money as far back as Hammurabi's development of the first code of laws 3700 years ago - before government even existed - shouldn't we wonder about the common sense of claiming that 'our government imposes the idea of gold as money, otherwise it wouldn't exist?

Why is it that this community can be so brilliant almost all of the time and yet still come up with such bloopers every so often? Seems we are publicly commiserating about the stupidity of the sheeple while at the same time making statements about gold as money which suggest we could not care less about the historical record.

Perhaps at very least we should stop regarding the people all around us as cows and sheep?

[Jim Nickerson]

Re: The Real Reason for Paper Money

Perhaps at very least we should stop regarding the people all around us as cows and sheep?

Lukester,

We are all ignorant about something. If everyone who visits iTulip more than a few times wasn't looking for more perspective or education about something to do with staying alive financially, there would be few visitors.

Didn't you admit to having sold out of some positions because of what you read on iTulip, only then to question your actions? Correct me if I am wrong about that.

We are all ignorant and subject to some degree to the action of crowds, I believe.

Vast majority of Americans are very ignorant when the individual's knowledge is measured against some base of knowledge in specific fields.

[Guest]

Re: The Real Reason for Paper Money

Yes Jim -

But what about the question 'is gold money'? Seems to me if you claim in blanket terms that it's obvious gold is not money without a government approval, you need to be able to substantiate that historically?

Historically it just doesn't hold up. Nothing is born as money, obviously. But gold and silver more than most other materials, have found the earliest human function as money - almost 4000 years ago they were being used as money, and government patently did not exist in those times.

So why make trendy contrarian claims that only sheep would believe gold could be a natural form of money? If the theory has holes in it, and it's couched in terms 'only sheep believe what the government tells them is true' then one at very least can expect someone else to ask them to substantiate that claim.

As for my selling stocks - i.e. "I made a mistake" owning them in this turbulent market - that's my whole point - it's obviously OK to make mistakes, and it's OK to get some insight wrong, or even many insights wrong. What's less OK is to call everyone else a sheep or a cow unless one's own opinions are truly infallible. Last time I checked, no-one is infallible, therefore calling entire segments of one's fellow men sheep or cows is a hazardous claim.

As long as we are subject to errors of our own, calling the general public sheep or cows invites an examination of our own record for infallibility. I wish merely to note such terms are hazardous. "People in glass houses should not throw stones", or something to that effect.

I appreciate your moderate input. No personal offence is intended to anyone - this is a forum for open and free debate of ideas.

[Jim Nickerson]

Re: The Real Reason for Paper Money

What's less OK is to call everyone else a sheep or a cow unless one's own opinions are truly infallible. Last time I checked, no-one is infallible, therefore calling entire segments of one's fellow men sheep or cows is a hazardous claim.

As long as we are subject to errors of our own, calling the general public sheep or cows invites an examination of our own record for infallibility. I wish merely to note such terms are hazardous. "People in glass houses should not throw stones", or something to that effect.

I appreciate your moderate input. No personal offence is intended to anyone - this is a forum for open and free debate of ideas.

Lukester,

I've not been offended by anything I've yet read on iTulip.

We are all sheeple to some degree, some are just 100% pure, thoroughbreds (meaning they are dumb in almost all things), and some a bit more mongrelized (meaning they are dumb in fewer things).

If you disagree with use of terms "sheeple" and "cows" (I think Tet may be only one who uses the latter), then don't use them.

There probably is someone, somewhere that can say all people are ignorant and exclude himself, but I think most of understand that ignorance is rather much universal. I've not seen anyone here write he/she knows it all, and everyone else doesn't know squat.

What are you, some sort of moral compass?

In a society where wealth is everything, and acquistion of it by any means short of using a shootin-iron to get it is acceptable, who needs a moral compass?

[Guest]

Re: The Real Reason for Paper Money

OK now Tet and I are both driving around San Diego each armed with a big wicker basket full of rotten eggs permanently parked on the jump-seat.

We are armed and dangerous - ready to throw rotten eggs at each other's vehicles upon sight.

Shoot first, and ask questions later!

I don't know where he lives yet, but I'll find out! Then it'll be rotten egg shootout city. I've even got a paintball gun to fire the things. It's green colored plastic, with bile-yellow streaks for decoration. Shoots twenty yards with high accuracy.

[Tet]

Re: The Real Reason for Paper Money

In a society where wealth is everything, and acquistion of it by any means short of using a shootin-iron to get it is acceptable, who needs a moral compass?

Well said.

Regarding cows, I like using the term because it's best to know that there are those that view themselves to be ranchers. Cattle are castrated; we today live in a society where the ranchers believe it's best to castrate the males. Watch how males are generally portrayed on TV these days and you see we’re shown to be idiots. Now who would want to take advice from an idiot? Now why is this? Castrated cattle don't pose the same threat to the rancher as non-castrated cattle being castrated makes them docile. Cattle prods are used to get cows moving in a certain direction, much like how Fear gets preached 24/7 out of the MSM to get us two legged cows moving in a certain direction. Once they’ve got you where they want you cattle guards are used to keep you there. Funny that you can just paint white lines on a road and a cow won’t go across them. How many misperceptions like this get created by our human ranchers just to get the cattle caught on the wrong side of the bet? We’ve even had a company develop a human cattle prod called a Taser. Cattle get dehorned, vaccinated, spooked, branded, fattened-up, slaughtered, milked and turned into shoes and belts. The comparisons to how our society is run and how cattle get treated is endless. But we all have cute eyes.

I think it’s best to acknowledge that those in charge of society, the banksters, the hypsters, the lawyers and the government servants view those not in charge as cattle and treat them as such. Not surprising that so many of these guys come from Texas, home of the rancher.

[Guest]

Re: The Real Reason for Paper Money

I'm ready for ya Tet - I got my paint gun all armed (I even got a holster), my basket of well seasoned formerly raw eggs ready, and I just put fresh windshield wipers on my truck. Come an' git me.

[mikew]

Re: The Real Reason for Paper Money

But what about the question 'is gold money'? Seems to me if you claim in blanket terms that it's obvious gold is not money without a government approval, you need to be able to substantiate that historically?

Historically it just doesn't hold up. Nothing is born as money, obviously. But gold and silver more than most other materials, have found the earliest human function as money - almost 4000 years ago they were being used as money, and government patently did not exist in those times.

history has NO IMPACT on the future though. to hoard gold in preparation because in the past it has always been regarded as money is akin to buying the dow because historically it has always gone up.

i posted something similar on goldismoney and got attacked obviously. but holding gold is simply a bet that in the future, the market (the masses) will value it moreso than paper. will this be the case? who knows. probably the best bet would be oil, but its not very convenient to store boatloads of oil heh

[Guest]

Re: The Real Reason for Paper Money

Mikew -

< to hoard gold in preparation because in the past it has always been regarded as money is akin to buying the dow because historically it has always gone up >>

Good luck with that theory!