How Serfdom was created...

[Sapiens]

http://www.ndu.edu/library/ic2/L51-134.pdf

That brings us to the third period of Russian history, the Muscovite period. This was the period in which pressure from western technology and pressure from eastern populations met and together hammered out Russia as a military machine superimposed upon the Slav population. The poverty of the people made the possession of firearms an exclusive state prerogative. Only the state had firearms and the state could maintain its firearms only by fiscal pressure on the people. Thus, you have fiscalism. This fiscalism so drained the wealth from the people that they were never able to get firearms, so firearms remained the exclusive prerogative of the government. The populations didn't have firearms; they couldn't get them; there was a continuation of the Mongol tribute. The result was autocracy. The peasants were subject to the landlords and thus you got serfdom. This was the period in which serfdom was created. The landlords were given this power over their serfs so that the landlords would be able to fight. Thus you get a military machine because the landlords were allied with Moscow.

[*T*]

Re: How Serfdom was created...

In the UK, it can be traced back at least to the Enclosure Acts.

As Sir Thomas Moore put it, in 1516,

But I do not think that this necessity of stealing arises only from hence; there is another cause of it, more peculiar to England.' 'What is that?' said the Cardinal: 'The increase of pasture,' said I, 'by which your sheep, which are naturally mild, and easily kept in order, may be said now to devour men and unpeople, not only villages, but towns; for wherever it is found that the sheep of any soil yield a softer and richer wool than ordinary, there the nobility and gentry, and even those holy men, the abbots not contented with the old rents which their farms yielded, nor thinking it enough that they, living at their ease, do no good to the public, resolve to do it hurt instead of good. They stop the course of agriculture, destroying houses and towns, reserving only the churches, and enclose grounds that they may lodge their sheep in them.

Parliament was set up to represent the interests of the landlords, and oddly enough the crown was pro-commons, sensing the possibility of revolt.
These days we are taught that parliament represents the people. And these days the crown and the church are the landowners.

In an interesting podcast, Fred Harrison argues that land ownership rather than income or production should be taxed, to give incentive for productive land use, and to rein in harmful land speculation. Given that the crown and church own so much land in the UK, I doubt it would happen, but is at least fresh revolutionary thinking away from the usual Marxist dogma.

[Rajiv]

Re: How Serfdom was created...

In an interesting podcast, Fred Harrison argues that land ownership rather than income or production should be taxed, to give incentive for productive land use, and to rein in harmful land speculation. Given that the crown and church own so much land in the UK, I doubt it would happen, but is at least fresh revolutionary thinking away from the usual Marxist dogma.

There was a thread on Ricardo's Law a while back, and another on Beating the Bust: Land Value Taxation

[c1ue]

Re: How Serfdom was created...

I always thought serfdom was a logical consequence of Feudalism.

As a more specific example - the Norman conquest of England: castellating the countryside by building motte and bailey forts followed by stone castles, then using these safe havens to raid the nearby populace until they submitted to your authority.

Extend this for a generation or two, voila! Serf's up!

[World Traveler]

Re: How Serfdom was created...

Hi folks, it's good to be back. We've were without electricity for 11 days due to Hurricane Ike and privatized electric grid company Centerpoint (which fought and won in 2005 before Texas Public Utility Commission against spending for relatively simple measures to prepare Houston for a hurricane, the type of measures that Florida did pass in 2005). But that's a topic for another rant. Just believe me life without electricity is the pits.

I read a theory long ago that appears to have some validity re: the road to serfdom and how revolutions happen.

For a revolution against the road to serfdom, the educated classes must suffer greatly and join with the working classes (what we would call lower middle class and poor) to agitate for change.

In the mid-and late 1990's, I was seriously studying Spanish, and I watched the Spanish language news every night. They play a lot more Latin American news that U>S> English language stations and cover what was happening in Venezuela at the time. In the early 1990's, Venezueala was doing very badly - corrupt government - 2 parties traded power but the oligarchs were the real power bend the scenes in both parties, what oil revenues there was (low oil prices) were in hands of a small elite, one of the largest banks in country was ripped off by insiders and government had to spend a huge amount to rescue it, most of country was getting poorer, etc.

What was fascinating to me was that the middle classes were rioting and demonstrating, doctors and teachers were refusing to work for the low wages they were paid, etc.

Hugo Chavez was actually a third party, new party candidate, and in his first election (1997 I believe) won with more than 60% of the vote and strong support from the lower and middle classes.

He won despite the fact that the mainstream media in Venezuela (owned by the local oligarchs) hates Chavez and provided very lopsided coverage.

I was in Venezuela in 2003 and watched the mainstream media coverage there, during an attempt (pushed by upper classes and elite) to recall Chavez. Because they really hate Chavez. Yet Chavez defeated the recall attempt in an open election monitored by international observers.

What REALLY amazed me was that in plazas in Caracas, poor street vendors were selling copies of the Venezuelan constitution and ALL Venezuelans were heavily involved in discourse of nation's direction. I talked to upper middle class people who hated Chavez and poor people who strongly supported him. It seemed to me that the people felt empowered, no matter their belief system and who they supported, and were involved in making an impact.

Why is he still in power there? Because his number one local goal is to meet the needs of poor and middle class/ lower middle class Venezuelans. There are programs to provide doctors to the barrios that ring Caracas, literacy campaigns, provide land to the peasants, open access universities for the middle classes and poor, etc., etc.

He loves to bait the U.S. and is definitely working against U.S. interests in Latin America...but that is not what matters to most locals.

This is not a defense of Chavez, it's merely an attempt to show how the road to serfdom can be interrupted.

It is possible to revolt peacefully against the road to serfdom and win.

[Guest]

Re: How Serfdom was created...

World Traveler - He is also bankrupting Venezuela all over again by distributing the largesse of their oil revenue far and wide beyond Venezuela to buy influence, play political games, and he's drastically undercut the state oil company's production by driving all the professionals out and stuffing it fully of cronies. That part is true, no? Along with nationalizing everything in sight, neutering the opposition, and vigorously engaging in a cult of personality as well as pressing for a lifelong term of office? Be seen clearly to cast these references into your descriptions, and I'd trust your endorsements a little more. "This is not a defense of Chavez" is a singularly mild overview of all the above as a qualifier. That would be an understatement. Look at Lula da Silva for everything Chavez could be but is not. Your description of the man's humanitarian leanings leaves me skeptical, and I read zero US press. This is not a "manipulated viewpoint", it is a viewpoint informed by healthy skepticism of Chavez liveliest concerns, which I believe are more directed at the longevity of his term than they are to the populist programs he runs with wild inefficiency whilst squandering Venezuela's most precious resource with his trademark spendthrift abandon.

Hi folks, it's good to be back. We've were without electricity for 11 days due to Hurricane Ike and privatized electric grid company Centerpoint (which fought and won in 2005 before Texas Public Utility Commission against spending for relatively simple measures to prepare Houston for a hurricane, the type of measures that Florida did pass in 2005). But that's a topic for another rant. Just believe me life without electricity is the pits.

I read a theory long ago that appears to have some validity re: the road to serfdom and how revolutions happen.

For a revolution against the road to serfdom, the educated classes must suffer greatly and join with the working classes (what we would call lower middle class and poor) to agitate for change.

In the mid-and late 1990's, I was seriously studying Spanish, and I watched the Spanish language news every night. They play a lot more Latin American news that U>S> English language stations and cover what was happening in Venezuela at the time. In the early 1990's, Venezueala was doing very badly - corrupt government - 2 parties traded power but the oligarchs were the real power bend the scenes in both parties, what oil revenues there was (low oil prices) were in hands of a small elite, one of the largest banks in country was ripped off by insiders and government had to spend a huge amount to rescue it, most of country was getting poorer, etc.

What was fascinating to me was that the middle classes were rioting and demonstrating, doctors and teachers were refusing to work for the low wages they were paid, etc.

Hugo Chavez was actually a third party, new party candidate, and in his first election (1997 I believe) won with more than 60% of the vote and strong support from the lower and middle classes.

He won despite the fact that the mainstream media in Venezuela (owned by the local oligarchs) hates Chavez and provided very lopsided coverage.

I was in Venezuela in 2003 and watched the mainstream media coverage there, during an attempt (pushed by upper classes and elite) to recall Chavez. Because they really hate Chavez. Yet Chavez defeated the recall attempt in an open election monitored by international observers.

What REALLY amazed me was that in plazas in Caracas, poor street vendors were selling copies of the Venezuelan constitution and ALL Venezuelans were heavily involved in discourse of nation's direction. I talked to upper middle class people who hated Chavez and poor people who strongly supported him. It seemed to me that the people felt empowered, no matter their belief system and who they supported, and were involved in making an impact.

Why is he still in power there? Because his number one local goal is to meet the needs of poor and middle class/ lower middle class Venezuelans. There are programs to provide doctors to the barrios that ring Caracas, literacy campaigns, provide land to the peasants, open access universities for the middle classes and poor, etc., etc.

He loves to bait the U.S. and is definitely working against U.S. interests in Latin America...but that is not what matters to most locals.

This is not a defense of Chavez, it's merely an attempt to show how the road to serfdom can be interrupted.

It is possible to revolt peacefully against the road to serfdom and win.

[Chris]

Re: How Serfdom was created...

I read a theory long ago that appears to have some validity re: the road to serfdom and how revolutions happen.

For a revolution against the road to serfdom, the educated classes must suffer greatly and join with the working classes (what we would call lower middle class and poor) to agitate for change.

There is a myth that started with Marx, that the proletariat would lead the socialist revolution. In fact if you examine any socialist movement in the twentieth century you'll find the leaders were always member of the intellectual class. Che Guevara was a doctor, Lenin a lawyer, etc.

I'm sure this was probably also the case pre-19th century though probably to a lesser degree.

No, there will be no pitchforks at the marble entrances to Goldman, Sachs, JPM and the White House until the middle class join the poor in the tent cities.

[c1ue]

Re: How Serfdom was created...

There is a myth that started with Marx, that the proletariat would lead the socialist revolution. In fact if you examine any socialist movement in the twentieth century you'll find the leaders were always member of the intellectual class. Che Guevara was a doctor, Lenin a lawyer, etc.

Quite true, but my own opinion is that it was Communism's appeal which caused this 20th century trend as opposed to the intellectual's rise per se.

As for a counter example - check out the 1848 revolutions. There have been regular uprisings of the peasants, but they were uniformly squashed.

As noted in the Norman example: until the rise of the long bow and then firearms, an armored knight on horseback is even stronger than an armored vehicle a la 1945 vs. infantry. Peasant armies of 100,000 or more were regularly routed by forces 1/10th their number.

Organization is what makes a revolution succeed - likely why Communism was able to take hold in Russia. That, and the circumstance of WW I.

[phirang]

Re: How Serfdom was created...

Quite true, but my own opinion is that it was Communism's appeal which caused this 20th century trend as opposed to the intellectual's rise per se.

As for a counter example - check out the 1848 revolutions. There have been regular uprisings of the peasants, but they were uniformly squashed.

As noted in the Norman example: until the rise of the long bow and then firearms, an armored knight on horseback is even stronger than an armored vehicle a la 1945 vs. infantry. Peasant armies of 100,000 or more were regularly routed by forces 1/10th their number.

Organization is what makes a revolution succeed - likely why Communism was able to take hold in Russia. That, and the circumstance of WW I.

Barbara Tuchman has countless examples in her book about the 14th century...

[Rajiv]

Re: How Serfdom was created...

Susan Rosenthal has a good article on this topic
A Social Definition of Class

[VIT]

Re: How Serfdom was created...

Organization is what makes a revolution succeed - likely why Communism was able to take hold in Russia. That, and the circumstance of WW I.

Russia had 2 revolutions in 1917. The first was when tzar was dismissed - that one was not crafted by particular political organization but by broad antagonism between very small group and public servants/intelligentsia/capitalists(in smaller degree). And only the second was crafted by communists. So in revolution itself organizations were secondary importance but it became primary regarding who took the power after.

[c1ue]

Re: How Serfdom was created...

VIT,

Of course you are right, how could I forget Kerensky.

But the original point doesn't change: it took authoritarianism and organization to make the eventual nation of the Soviet Union.

Kerensky and company meant well but tried too hard to please too many people.

It is no different than China: The original government that overthrew the last emperor was quickly corrupted. The resulting Warlords had power, but in turn their excesses led to the original Maoists.

[VIT]

Re: How Serfdom was created...

To c1ue:

I did not challenge the point, just clarified:
you need to have both: people disaffection and organization.

Organization is the force which converts uprising/discontent to revolution and fix the result and hold the power. Without this its just emotional burst.

Nobody could believe that communists took the power. They were in minority after the first revolution. But they had the best organization and Lenin skills with German money Then they won the civil war which was not easy as well.

[ocelotl]

Re: How Serfdom was created...

Hi folks, it's good to be back. We've were without electricity for 11 days due to Hurricane Ike and privatized electric grid company Centerpoint (which fought and won in 2005 before Texas Public Utility Commission against spending for relatively simple measures to prepare Houston for a hurricane, the type of measures that Florida did pass in 2005). But that's a topic for another rant. Just believe me life without electricity is the pits.

I read a theory long ago that appears to have some validity re: the road to serfdom and how revolutions happen.

For a revolution against the road to serfdom, the educated classes must suffer greatly and join with the working classes (what we would call lower middle class and poor) to agitate for change.

In the mid-and late 1990's, I was seriously studying Spanish, and I watched the Spanish language news every night. They play a lot more Latin American news that U>S> English language stations and cover what was happening in Venezuela at the time. In the early 1990's, Venezueala was doing very badly - corrupt government - 2 parties traded power but the oligarchs were the real power bend the scenes in both parties, what oil revenues there was (low oil prices) were in hands of a small elite, one of the largest banks in country was ripped off by insiders and government had to spend a huge amount to rescue it, most of country was getting poorer, etc.

What was fascinating to me was that the middle classes were rioting and demonstrating, doctors and teachers were refusing to work for the low wages they were paid, etc.

Hugo Chavez was actually a third party, new party candidate, and in his first election (1997 I believe) won with more than 60% of the vote and strong support from the lower and middle classes.

He won despite the fact that the mainstream media in Venezuela (owned by the local oligarchs) hates Chavez and provided very lopsided coverage.

I was in Venezuela in 2003 and watched the mainstream media coverage there, during an attempt (pushed by upper classes and elite) to recall Chavez. Because they really hate Chavez. Yet Chavez defeated the recall attempt in an open election monitored by international observers.

What REALLY amazed me was that in plazas in Caracas, poor street vendors were selling copies of the Venezuelan constitution and ALL Venezuelans were heavily involved in discourse of nation's direction. I talked to upper middle class people who hated Chavez and poor people who strongly supported him. It seemed to me that the people felt empowered, no matter their belief system and who they supported, and were involved in making an impact.

Why is he still in power there? Because his number one local goal is to meet the needs of poor and middle class/ lower middle class Venezuelans. There are programs to provide doctors to the barrios that ring Caracas, literacy campaigns, provide land to the peasants, open access universities for the middle classes and poor, etc., etc.

He loves to bait the U.S. and is definitely working against U.S. interests in Latin America...but that is not what matters to most locals.

This is not a defense of Chavez, it's merely an attempt to show how the road to serfdom can be interrupted.

It is possible to revolt peacefully against the road to serfdom and win.

Something to ponder.

Do you know Venezuelan Elections are supervised via satellite?

They have a system there, so that in order for an individual to vote, just an ID is not enough, you have to pass your finger through an scanner, to be compared to a central DB. To achieve connection from everywhere, all the system is based on a Satellite network.

All the paraphernalia for election is handled not by civil population, but by Venezuelan Army. All links and related electronic equipment are installed for the election day by the Venezuelan Army, that is handling the booths on election day. After they finish the election journey, they dismantle and store away all that equipment.

Just imagine, a national network that could be the base for internal communications to the farthest point of Venezuelan soil, used just to supervise the population during elections...

Press info here.