The Myth of the Slow Crash Revisited – Eric Janszen

[FRED]

Re: The Myth of the Slow Crash Revisited – Eric Janszen

Apologies.
Nice recovery.

Basically you're right that some of us hear too much of this meme that the lowest-paid, least powerful public servants (just like unionized auto workers) are somehow to blame for trillions upon trillions of dollars of economic troubles which only upper management could create. I reacted with a hair-trigger.

Just for the record, I found it hard to tell from your post that you were using the word "symbol" in a sarcastic, facetious way, i.e. a "scapegoat" which doesn't represent reality. It sounded like you were using "symbol" as "exemplar". Scare quotes around 'symbol', or maybe a wink-smiley instead of a full smiley, might have done the trick.

There are too many iTulipers for me to keep track of which avatar has which political leanings, so I mistook you for one of the Rothbard-type Libertarians we occasionally see on these pages... I offer my apologies.

In the blogosphere these matters are usually argued as "four legs good, two legs bad" so it's easy to assume that anyone who is for small government automatically thinks poorly of public servants.

In that vein we are thinking of starting a section in the new iTulip called, Who said this? For example:

Though he may be little versed in the things of this world, it can hardly have escaped the Montesquieu of Cologne that "new inventions" and commercial crises are features just as permanent as Prussian ministerial decrees and legal basis. New inventions, especially in Germany, are only introduced when competition with other nations makes it vital to introduce them; and should the newly arising branches of industry be expected to ruin themselves in order to render assistance to the declining ones. The new industries that come into being as a result of inventions come into being precisely because they can produce more cheaply than the declining industries. What the deuce would be the advantage if they had to feed the declining industries? But it is well known that the state, the government, only seems to give. It has to be given first in order to give. But who should do the giving, Montesquieu LVI? The declining industry, so that it decline even faster? Or the rising industry, so that it wither on the stem? Or those industries that have not been affected by the new inventions, so that they go bankrupt because of the invention of a new tax? Think it over carefully, Montesquieu LVI!

And what about the commercial crises, my dear man? When a European commercial crisis occurs the Prussian state is above all anxious to extract the last drops, by means of distraint, etc., from the usual sources of revenue. Poor Prussian state! In order to neutralize the effect of commercial crises, the Prussian state would have to possess, in addition to national labor, a third source of income in Cloud- Cuckoo-Land.

Who said this?

a. Murray N. Rothbard
b. Ludwig von Mises
c. John Stuart Mill
d. Jean-Baptiste Say
e. Karl Marx

(Hat tip to Shakespear for the idea.)

[jimmygu3]

Re: The Myth of the Slow Crash Revisited – Eric Janszen

Apologies.
Nice recovery.

Basically you're right that some of us hear too much of this meme that the lowest-paid, least powerful public servants (just like unionized auto workers) are somehow to blame for trillions upon trillions of dollars of economic troubles which only upper management could create. I reacted with a hair-trigger.

Just for the record, I found it hard to tell from your post that you were using the word "symbol" in a sarcastic, facetious way, i.e. a "scapegoat" which doesn't represent reality. It sounded like you were using "symbol" as "exemplar". Scare quotes around 'symbol', or maybe a wink-smiley instead of a full smiley, might have done the trick.

I misunderstood don's original comment, too. It's funny but true that quotes or a different smiley choice would have avoided all this misinterpretation. I initially hated smilies, but I have realized that they are a necessary thing, since the reader often has no idea what your tone and emotion are, especially with very dry sarcasm.

Jimmy

[tree]

Re: The Myth of the Slow Crash Revisited – Eric Janszen

This thread....the Tulip at its best....

[necron99]

Re: [Quotes] The Myth of the Slow Crash Revisited

In that vein we are thinking of starting a section in the new iTulip called, Who said this? For example:

[truncated]...third source of income in Cloud- Cuckoo-Land.

Who said this?

a. Murray N. Rothbard
b. Ludwig von Mises
c. John Stuart Mill
d. Jean-Baptiste Say
e. Karl Marx

(Hat tip to Shakespear for the idea.)

I love the idea! Great! It ought to be a sticky thread somewhere, so that it has its own exclusive page and is easy to find. Please announce it somewhere so that I don't have to go combing through the entire Forum.

As for the actual question... I'll go for broke and guess Karl Marx! It's just a guess, though, I suppose it wouldn't be sporting to try and Google the quote. The others don't strike me as quite, quite the right time-period.

Here's one I've always liked:

"One of these days in your travels, a guy is going to show you a brand-new deck of cards on which the seal is not yet broken. Then this guy is going to offer to bet you that he can make the jack of spades jump out of this brand-new deck of cards and squirt cider in your ear. But, son, do not accept this bet, because as sure as you stand there, you're going to wind up with an ear full of cider."

Who Said This?
a) Eliot Spitzer
b) Warren Buffett
c) Sky Masterson
d) Joey Soprano
e) John F. Kennedy

...too easy??

[Chief Tomahawk]

Re: The Myth of the Slow Crash Revisited – Eric Janszen

Just thought I'd pass along a remarkable sight today. The CVS Pharmacy on my way to work, has long had the same type of sign a gas station has except it's for a gallon of milk. Forever and a day it's said "$2.99". Now it says "$2.79". Could prices of everyday items be heading lower?

[ax]

Re: The Myth of the Slow Crash Revisited – Eric Janszen

[quote=don;70103]

You managed to completely misunderstand my comment.
Congratulations

I believe the word is sarcasm. But now I see your explanation and subsequent apologies so I guess I wasn't alone. Congratulations.

[amitsaluja]

Re: The Myth of the Slow Crash Revisited – Eric Janszen

Here in Dallas, Milk at Kroger is also down from 2.50 to 2.25. But Gas which had gone below 1.50 is now up again to 1.72.

[audrey_girl]

Re: [Quotes] The Myth of the Slow Crash Revisited

I love the idea! Great! It ought to be a sticky thread somewhere, so that it has its own exclusive page and is easy to find. Please announce it somewhere so that I don't have to go combing through the entire Forum.

As for the actual question... I'll go for broke and guess Karl Marx! It's just a guess, though, I suppose it wouldn't be sporting to try and Google the quote. The others don't strike me as quite, quite the right time-period.

Here's one I've always liked:

Who Said This?
a) Eliot Spitzer
b) Warren Buffett
c) Sky Masterson
d) Joey Soprano
e) John F. Kennedy

...too easy??

(f) Nicely Nicely Johnson

[metalman]

Re: The Myth of the Slow Crash Revisited – Eric Janszen

karl. the prussia references kinda give it away, no?

on the second one, is joey kennedy an option?

[tree]

Re: The Myth of the Slow Crash Revisited – Eric Janszen

Just thought I'd pass along a remarkable sight today. The CVS Pharmacy on my way to work, has long had the same type of sign a gas station has except it's for a gallon of milk. Forever and a day it's said "$2.99". Now it says "$2.79". Could prices of everyday items be heading lower?

Milk is a loss leader--gets folks in the door at stores like CVS. Other stuff going up very soon, I think.

[vinoveri]

Re: The Myth of the Slow Crash Revisited – Eric Janszen

There are too many iTulipers for me to keep track of which avatar has which political leanings, so I mistook you for one of the Rothbard-type Libertarians we occasionally see on these pages... I offer my apologies.

Well Mr. T., nothing like a stereotypical categorization to get the bullits flying - hey maybe he's one of those wackos who believe liberty is a fine ideal, perhaps one of the finest - so we know where he's comin from ... attack and crush! we can't have the people out thinking they are free and don't need the nanny state - what would we ever do if the people started thinking this way, all those millions of bureaucratic jobs lost, oh no.:p

Policeman, Fireman, and School Teachers (and Dr.s and nurses too) are always needed and valued because they are local and we all need them. What we don't need are U.S. secretaries of education, labor, health, and the like foisting tand forcing heir half-baked theories on the rest of us.

Aristotle defined virtue as the golden mean between two extremes, both vices with one vice more deadly than the other. To stretch an analogy to economic systems, with all the perceived problems of "extreme" libertarianism, communism which is the other extreme is much much worse. Western culture has been a hallmark example of man's attempt to throw off the yolk of tyranny, in both daily economic life, political, philosophical and religious thought. But government's always grow in power, and never do they cede it, and they always ended in some form of demise, violent overthrow or not. So a good, but albeit still imperfect, attempt at the golden mean gov, say the democratic republic of the U.S. of 1790 has evolved (or devolved depending on your perspective) into something which I would venture to suppose is only dimly recognizable to founders like Washington and Jefferson. The 10th amendment is effectively dead letter and the government is out of control, (notwithstanding the building of the panama canal, landing a man on the moon, and all the other great achievments that have been accomplished).

While you and others may disagree with Rothbard type libertarianism (and I for one and not a 'disciple' either), at least his views are self consistent and are based on an underlying set of core principles and systematic thought - which to me is an admirable quality and much more refreshing than the typical "I want whatever works best for me" attitude that is more commonly seen and heard.

[don]

Re: The Myth of the Slow Crash Revisited – Eric Janszen

Another crash site. Nearly a 100 airports have closed in smaller cities and towns in the last 2 years. Residents have to drive 100+ miles to get to the nearest operating airport. This loss means ending a municipal income stream, ditto airport-dependent businesses, tourism in general, and local businesses that require business travel will relocate.

Were all those convenient airports before de-regulation an affluence mirage. Is airline concentration the rational, only viable future. Will air travel be primarily for business, with families saving for years for a trip? Will there be an impact on how far families live from one another?

Will there be air service to Jackalopes :rolleyes:

http://www.nytimes.com/2009/01/10/bu...l?ref=business

[dcarrigg]

Re: The Myth of the Slow Crash Revisited – Public Sector Employees

Another great article.

Any feeling as to when the Public Sector Employees will start to feel the pain.

Everyone I know in the "dreaded" Private Sector is anxious and worried about their financial future. Contrast that with Public Sector Employees I know who may worry a little about the economy, but will describe their own situation as set for life.

So, do you think the Feds will do what ever they have to to keep as many Public Sector Employees 'set for life'. Is there any chance that Municipal bankruptcies lead to elimination of Defined Benefit Pension Plans and are replaced with 401K savings plan?

I just don't see where the Money will come from to pay for the Defined Pension Plans for Government Employees?

It will not come from anywhere. These defined benefit plans are being phased out, and they are changing deals after the fact. State law is somewhat more easily altered during 'fiscal emergencies.' Normal special interests loose power when a budget must be balanced by the end of the year.

http://www.wpri.com/dpp/news/local_w...posal_20090108

[Jay]

Re: The Myth of the Slow Crash Revisited – Public Sector Employees

Another great article.

Any feeling as to when the Public Sector Employees will start to feel the pain.

Everyone I know in the "dreaded" Private Sector is anxious and worried about their financial future. Contrast that with Public Sector Employees I know who may worry a little about the economy, but will describe their own situation as set for life.

So, do you think the Feds will do what ever they have to to keep as many Public Sector Employees 'set for life'. Is there any chance that Municipal bankruptcies lead to elimination of Defined Benefit Pension Plans and are replaced with 401K savings plan?

I just don't see where the Money will come from to pay for the Defined Pension Plans for Government Employees?

I work in a blue collar community Emergency Department in the Northeast, beside that fact that the hospital is insolvent, the town is about to slash police and fire department jobs and benefits to make the books balance. Many hardworking people who have had good jobs for over a decade will be out of work.

[Scot]

Re: The Myth of the Slow Crash Revisited – Eric Janszen

Another crash site.

Were all those convenient airports before de-regulation an affluence mirage.

Those living at smaller regional airports were being supported by the affluent in other cities.

After deregulation, they lost their subsidy. This had the effect of a tax reduction on fares, increasing affordability and allowing greater numbers of people, overall, to fly.

So yeah, they were a mirage.