Unemployment by industry: Recession or depression? - Eric Janszen

[charliebrown]

Re: Unemployment by industry: Recession or depression?

I dont know. Why has tuition gone up 5x in a little over 20 years?
Is it salaries of staff? Infrastructure, falling state contributions, the football team??

Does anyone have a pie chart of costs in 85 vs. 2005??

[metalman]

Re: Unemployment by industry: Recession or depression?

I dont know. Why has tuition gone up 5x in a little over 20 years?
Is it salaries of staff? Infrastructure, falling state contributions, the football team??

Does anyone have a pie chart of costs in 85 vs. 2005??

this explains why... http://collegesavings.about.com/od/u...isingcosts.htm

[merry]

Re: Unemployment by industry: Recession or depression?

Hmm maybe get the education then default.

It is my understanding that one cannot default on student loans. The banks can and will garnish even disability checks.

[metalman]

Re: Unemployment by industry: Recession or depression?

It is my understanding that one cannot default on student loans. The banks can and will garnish even disability checks.

that's true. one of the few recourse loans in the usa.

reminds me... as the credit industry runs the usa and ain't stupid, how long before non-recourse loans are legislated into recourse loans the way bankruptcy laws were tighten up right after revolving credit peaked in 2005?

[zoog]

Re: Unemployment by industry: Recession or depression?

It is my understanding that one cannot default on student loans. The banks can and will garnish even disability checks.

Yeah pretty much. Apparently about 75% of those who do default (or try to anyway, depending on how you want to define it) are people who dropped out of school before finishing a degree.

Consequences of Default
If you default on your student loan:

• Your loans may be turned over to a collection agency.
• You'll be liable for the costs associated with collecting your loan, including court costs and attorney fees.
• You can be sued for the entire amount of your loan.
• Your wages may be garnished. (Federal law limits the amount that may be garnished to 15% of the borrower's take-home pay.)
• Your federal and state income tax refunds may be intercepted.
• The federal government may withhold part of your Social Security benefit payments. (The US Supreme Court upheld the government's ability to collect defaulted student loans in this manner without a statute of limitations in Lockhart v US (04-881, December 2005).)
• Your defaulted loans will appear on your credit record, making it difficult for you to obtain an auto loan, mortgage, or even credit cards. A bad credit record can also harm your ability to find a job.
• You won't receive any more federal financial aid until you repay the loan in full or make arrangements to repay what you already owe and make at least six consecutive, on-time, monthly payments. (You will also be ineligible for assistance under most federal benefit programs.)
• You'll be ineligible for deferments.
• Subsidized interest benefits will be denied.
• You may not be able to renew a professional license you hold.

And of course, you will still owe the full amount of your loan.

[Chomsky]

Re: Unemployment by industry: Recession or depression?

this explains why... http://collegesavings.about.com/od/u...isingcosts.htm

That article omits a crucial driver of soaring college tuitions: the free availability of student loan debt, which dramatically increased demand. Like everything else, a credit bubble blew up college tuitions. That, too, shall pop.

[metalman]

Re: Unemployment by industry: Recession or depression?

That article omits a crucial driver of soaring college tuitions: the free availability of student loan debt, which dramatically increased demand. Like everything else, a credit bubble blew up college tuitions. That, too, shall pop.

agree! another victim of credit inflation. it was good demand, but the debt and the supply constraint is a bitch.

cancel the debt, increase the supply.

[FRED]

Re: Unemployment by industry: Recession or depression? - Eric Janszen

I am new on this Forum, here from Luxemburg; situation is getting tougher here too..

Now, concerning recession or depression, inflation or deflation, I found this good article from Hugo Salinas Price on http://www.plata.com.mx/mplata/artic...iidarticulo=89

concerning the sudden schrink (or sudden stop in exponential growth) in the Reserves of World's Central Bank.
As he explains:

'It seems to me that when a huge number such as USD7 trillion suddenly stops growing, it must indicates that someting very serious is going on..'

What could be the explanation ? Financial heart attack ?

et merci a EJ et a tous les bloggers..

We think Hugo has over-dramatized the data.

[Nervous Drake]

Re: Unemployment by industry: Recession or depression?

.

[*T*]

Re: Unemployment by industry: Recession or depression?

i bet 99% of the free marketeers here are engineers. in their fantasy world economic and political power is given up to no one in particular on the basis of abstract theories

Totally disagree with that comment -- would say it's the opposite.

Remember as an engineer the stuff you build actually has to work and you design in safety margins at every step. It's called robustness and is exactly the opposite of what we built into our financial system - fragility.

[vinoveri]

Re: Unemployment by industry: Recession or depression?

this explains why... http://collegesavings.about.com/od/u...isingcosts.htm

No it doesn't - this is same ole self serving BS to justify the ludicrous existence of many a college curriculuum and fees.

The whole educational establishment is effectively compulsory and subsidized -and this is why tuition goes up -"Because it can".

If the gov weren't underwriting the costs (through loans and grants) and the "culture of experts" weren't effective at lobbying the gov to monopolize professions to only those who "go to college/certification" -college would be more about learning how to think and communicate (liberal arts) and a lot cheaper.

We live in a highly regulated world where every profession seeks to a monopoly on who can practice in order to limit competition w/i the field ( from med school, law school, P.Engineers., social workers, certified waste management.) Our culture frowns on "rennaissance men" OR "jack of all trades" - and now we live in a world where each narrow field of expertise arrogates authority for itself, but defers authority to every other field to do the same, and these experts are turned to by helpless folk and gov for all the answers.
As G K Chesterton called it, we live in "a Madhouse of Monomaniacs"

For all your criticism of Von Mises, the point of allowing the free market to determine who succeeds and who does not holds a lot of attraction and makes a lot of sense IMO - and it's libertarian (are you?). The argument that the gov needs to regulate and protect us from quacks and other "fraudulent practicioners" is just lazy, nanny state mentality - liberty demands responsibility and the use of one's wits - not blind faith and dependence on some 3rd party "certifying agency". An imcompetent "professional" will soon be discovered in the market and will lose his business (and will get sued). But potential great doctors, lawyers, et cet are foreclosed from being unless they submit to the "licensing process".

The expression used to be "those who can do and those who can't teach" - teachers have always made less than those who actual produce and well they should now with the kind of crap they spew out now. Half the junk that's taught today in higher education is politically correct tripe - our children are not being taught how to think but what to think -and even that is garbage. The common man being deprived of his common sense.

By the way, MM, what is the origin of your avatar (who is it?)

[jk]

Re: Unemployment by industry: Recession or depression?

No it doesn't - this is same ole self serving BS to justify the ludicrous existence of many a college curriculuum and fees.

The whole educational establishment is effectively compulsory and subsidized -and this is why tuition goes up -"Because it can".

If the gov weren't underwriting the costs (through loans and grants) and the "culture of experts" weren't effective at lobbying the gov to monopolize professions to only those who "go to college/certification" -college would be more about learning how to think and communicate (liberal arts) and a lot cheaper.

We live in a highly regulated world where every profession seeks to a monopoly on who can practice in order to limit competition w/i the field ( from med school, law school, P.Engineers., social workers, certified waste management.) Our culture frowns on "rennaissance men" OR "jack of all trades" - and now we live in a world where each narrow field of expertise arrogates authority for itself, but defers authority to every other field to do the same, and these experts are turned to by helpless folk and gov for all the answers.
As G K Chesterton called it, we live in "a Madhouse of Monomaniacs"

For all your criticism of Von Mises, the point of allowing the free market to determine who succeeds and who does not holds a lot of attraction and makes a lot of sense IMO - and it's libertarian (are you?). The argument that the gov needs to regulate and protect us from quacks and other "fraudulent practicioners" is just lazy, nanny state mentality - liberty demands responsibility and the use of one's wits - not blind faith and dependence on some 3rd party "certifying agency". An imcompetent "professional" will soon be discovered in the market and will lose his business (and will get sued). But potential great doctors, lawyers, et cet are foreclosed from being unless they submit to the "licensing process".

The expression used to be "those who can do and those who can't teach" - teachers have always made less than those who actual produce and well they should now with the kind of crap they spew out now. Half the junk that's taught today in higher education is politically correct tripe - our children are not being taught how to think but what to think -and even that is garbage. The common man being deprived of his common sense.

By the way, MM, what is the origin of your avatar (who is it?)

and what toy company would allow its toys to be coated in lead-based paint? they'd soon be out of business and no harm done!
what dairy would would contaminate its milk and allow candy, for instance, to be manufactured with it? that would be foolish and insane. no need to worry about that!
what bank would hold billions in toxic debt on its books, risking failure? such behavior would abrogate management's responsibility to shareholders and risk the bank's very survival! didn't sir prints-a-lot, alan greenspan, just say something about this?:rolleyes:
i can't wait to get treated by one of those unlicensed doctors!

[metalman]

Re: Unemployment by industry: Recession or depression?

No it doesn't - this is same ole self serving BS to justify the ludicrous existence of many a college curriculuum and fees.

The whole educational establishment is effectively compulsory and subsidized -and this is why tuition goes up -"Because it can".

If the gov weren't underwriting the costs (through loans and grants) and the "culture of experts" weren't effective at lobbying the gov to monopolize professions to only those who "go to college/certification" -college would be more about learning how to think and communicate (liberal arts) and a lot cheaper.

We live in a highly regulated world where every profession seeks to a monopoly on who can practice in order to limit competition w/i the field ( from med school, law school, P.Engineers., social workers, certified waste management.) Our culture frowns on "rennaissance men" OR "jack of all trades" - and now we live in a world where each narrow field of expertise arrogates authority for itself, but defers authority to every other field to do the same, and these experts are turned to by helpless folk and gov for all the answers.
As G K Chesterton called it, we live in "a Madhouse of Monomaniacs"

For all your criticism of Von Mises, the point of allowing the free market to determine who succeeds and who does not holds a lot of attraction and makes a lot of sense IMO - and it's libertarian (are you?). The argument that the gov needs to regulate and protect us from quacks and other "fraudulent practicioners" is just lazy, nanny state mentality - liberty demands responsibility and the use of one's wits - not blind faith and dependence on some 3rd party "certifying agency". An imcompetent "professional" will soon be discovered in the market and will lose his business (and will get sued). But potential great doctors, lawyers, et cet are foreclosed from being unless they submit to the "licensing process".

The expression used to be "those who can do and those who can't teach" - teachers have always made less than those who actual produce and well they should now with the kind of crap they spew out now. Half the junk that's taught today in higher education is politically correct tripe - our children are not being taught how to think but what to think -and even that is garbage. The common man being deprived of his common sense.

By the way, MM, what is the origin of your avatar (who is it?)

your point is well taken for those professions that are not highly technological. i'd like to know if my doctor is a trained doctor who has met a reasonable test of competency rather than have to rout around on the internet to find out how many patients he's killed before letting him operate on me.

you don't need a degree to be a journalist or a mortgage broker... anyone can do it and anyone does.

what jk is referring to is the 'fallacy of composition' that koo refers to, where market participants by each making rational decisions in their own self interest destroy the market for all.

but it's worse even than that... under our system, there is no self-correction of private interests who fail to act in the public interest as the free market religious freaks believe. as the housing bubble proved, the 100,000 watt bull horn of the msm yelled 'housing prices only go up!' 100 times a day, 7/24 for years on end was up against itulip then years later a pile of blogs that few read or believed... cries in the wilderness. on net, the truth about the housing market was suppressed by the rre industry's influence over the channels of market information.

what's the solution? regulation of private media? a large, public funded media that competes with private media?

my avatar is oscar wilde.

[vinoveri]

Re: Unemployment by industry: Recession or depression?

and what toy company would allow its toys to be coated in lead-based paint? they'd soon be out of business and no harm done!
what dairy would would contaminate its milk and allow candy, for instance, to be manufactured with it? that would be foolish and insane. no need to worry about that!
what bank would hold billions in toxic debt on its books, risking failure? such behavior would abrogate management's responsibility to shareholders and risk the bank's very survival! didn't sir prints-a-lot, alan greenspan, just say something about this?:rolleyes:
i can't wait to get treated by one of those unlicensed doctors!

in the toy, milk, and candy instances, they would be out of business (unless they're the only game in town or too big too fail - in which case the gov would bail them out and I wager protect them until the public outcry grew too loud) - and the market would respond by developing it's own watchdog. There may be harm done - and that's why we have the courts to resolve tort cases - if you don't want to be sued and go out of business - don't hurt the public. Strict Liability in injurious products suits is what keeps most products safe IMO.

It comes down to whether you want the gov to manage your risks or want to assume some personal responsibility about it - granted there may be reasonable roles for gov, but the growth in regulation over the last 30 yrs attests to the rapidity with which the gov has assumed power - and the rationale is its always for the "greater good"

As for the licensing of MDs, it's not the licensure per se, but the stranglehold over the licensing requirements. If one can pass the medical "bar" exams or whatever the equivalent is, and have enough clinical experience (e.g., apprenticship) and is supported by references of other practicing Drs., why should one not get a license?
By the way, there are still 4 states (Virginia is one) in the U.S. where you can get a license to practice law by "apprenticing" under an attorney or judge for 4+ years and then take the bar exam (w/o ever stepping foot in a law school). I'd be surprised in the law schools are supportive of this.

I for one would not object to my high school age children being taught science by a PhD physicist or chemist, even without a teaching certificate that is now required.

[vinoveri]

Re: Unemployment by industry: Recession or depression?

what jk is referring to is the 'fallacy of composition' that koo refers to, where market participants by each making rational decisions in their own self interest destroy the market for all.

but it's worse even than that... under our system, there is no self-correction of private interests who fail to act in the public interest as the free market religious freaks believe. as the housing bubble proved, the 100,000 watt bull horn of the msm yelled 'housing prices only go up!' 100 times a day, 7/24 for years on end was up against itulip then years later a pile of blogs that few read or believed... cries in the wilderness. on net, the truth about the housing market was suppressed by the rre industry's influence over the channels of market information.

what's the solution? regulation of private media? a large, public funded media that competes with private media?

my avatar is oscar wilde.

thanks. points taken. i don't have the answers, but think that more gov is not the answer. the housing bubble description above seems to leave out the role that the gov played in it (low interest, fannie, freddie). could we have had the bubble and the current repurcussions w/o the gov involvement?