Vote for Obama. Here's why.

[ThePythonicCow]

Re: Vote for Obama. Here's why.

I know that all I can smell out of you is fear.

My suspect you are implying a racial fear.

I am confident that you are not correct in your assessment.

I watch people. I know him. America just made a serious mistake.

[BrianL]

Re: Vote for Obama. Here's why.

A large portion of the young are still poor; they don't have much to squeeze. Along with the lack of wealth is comes lack of study into preserving our wealth.

This goes along with an Microsoft published training manual I read a while back discussing generational differences in managing employees. The book repeatedly pointed out that those in the millenium generation are, stereotypically, more focused on work life balance than on success. A raise may not be adequate compensation to encourage younger people to work longer hours to the extent it was with previous generations. They also pointed out the millenium generation was more willing to move from job to job than they were interested in building long term relationships with a company.

A recent NPR piece recently discussed generation defining music. One element they pointed at as a defining chracteristic of the post-generation-x music was how music shifted music expressed angst and frustration derived from the realization that our generation wouldn't have it better than our parents. The itulip forums even echo some of this, with the boomer backlash.

It is an interesting set of data points. Some of this may simply be typical 'youth of today' observations. If it isn't, if there really is a shift in values under way, the next decade may be very interesting.

[Mn_Mark]

Re: Vote for Obama. Here's why.

I call you a "tinfoil-hat wearing paranoid psycho" for always fearing that if people arent like you then they must obviously be out to destroy you.

I value a world full of people who aren't like me. I want a world full of different peoples of different races and cultures and traditions. I love diversity on a world-wide scale. And I certainly don't think that if people aren't like me they are automatically out to destroy me.

However neither am I so naive that I think there is no such thing as ethnic affiliation and that people think of themselves as part of an ethnic group and want to see that group gain power and control of the country it resides in. That is simply a fact of human nature. Ask the Tutsis how well it worked to share a nation with the Hutus. Ask the Yugoslavs how well their national exercise in diversity worked out. Ask the Native Americans. Ask the indigenous peoples of Latin America. Look anywhere in the world where more than one people shares a single nation and you will see the places where wars and strife are occuring.

But for people like you, there can be no reasonable concern about such things. You caricature my concerns as nothing but unreasonable, cowardly fear. But your position is racist - only whites like me are to be scorned and ridiculed and demonized if we feel an affiliation for our own people, and identify with them, and want to see their future secure and prosperous. Blacks, Latinos, Native Americans, Asians, Africans, every other ethnic group on earth you naturally grant the right to think of themselves as a distinct people who have a natural interest in self-preservation as they are. But not whites. If we have the same feelings, we are nothing but cowards in your eyes who should relax and stop struggling as we, outnumbered 9 to 1 in the world, are gradually marginalized in the nations we founded and built. You will applaud the Native American or the Palestinian or the Aborigine who has a fierce identification with his ancestors and wants to protect his peoples' identity and historical character, but for a white man to do the same makes him evil and the source of the problems in the world.

You can get away with this for a while yet. Most whites want to believe that a world where ethnic identity has no meaning is possible. Many are willing to see their own people disappear if that sacrifice is necessary to preserve their well-intentioned, but misguided idealism. But many of us are not. We will not go quietly into the night. We will wait now and let you have your time and hope that our well-meaning, idealistic brothers and sisters wake up in time. We understand you have to have time to see for yourself what happens when you give away control of your people's nation to a competing people or peoples.

If you really want world peace, give every distinct people on earth their own separate nation with inviolate borders. Then we can truly welcome one another as friends and we can truly cherish the diversity of colors and languages and cultures of the brotherhood of mankind. But force us to try to compete for control of a single nation and you will unleash violence and endless strife.

And if you really want to further the conversation and build bridges and end division, stop ridiculing my concerns as those of a paranoid. You would not say that to the Aborigines or the Israelis or any other people on earth seeing control of their nation slipping away. Have the courtesy to deal with my arguments directly instead of with insults which stoke anger instead of creating understanding.

[Chris]

Re: Vote for Obama. Here's why.

Vote for Obama. Here's why.

...

All this most of you know; I have not yet faced the major anxiety of our people in our time but few express: race. I will do so by quoting a posting we received today by a new member who has not participated on our forums before. It is intelligently argued and I suspect shared by more people than care to express it. I believe the sentiment he expresses is 100% wrong, but I appreciate his willingness to share it and give me this opportunity to address it. He said:

In 1994, 70% of [white South African voters] drank the white liberal kool aid and voted themselves into the political minority on the promise that if they would just stop being racists, the future would be all about merit and equality and reconciliation. Instead they now find themselves under siege, legally discriminated against in jobs, prohibited from owning more than 49% of their own family businesses (they have to find a black person to give 51% to), the victims of rampant crime, rape, and murder (with a 2-3% rate of solving the murders). The famous white South Africa liberal writers whose writings contributed to ending apartheid are moving away to Australia and Europe. They have seen firsthand what they did to their own people and now they are running away. Nice for them, not so nice for the people who can't afford to leave.

But you never hear about South Africa anymore. White western liberals prefer not to think about what has happened there in the wake of the adoption of their reform program. Or in Zimbabwe. There is a slow-motion anti-white genocide unfolding there, but it doesn't fit the liberal script so it's not discussed.

So we are in an era where young white people have been indoctrinated for the last several decades in their schools and in the mass media that the history of whites is shameful and that they must never think in terms of race - while blacks, Latinos, and others openly identify with their own ethnic groups and interests, openly speak of themselves as a people based solely on race, openly push for special considerations based solely on race rather than merit. So we are going to have to go through the fire here, until young white people reach an age where they are trying to raise a family in safety with decent schools and without racial discrimination against whites.

They say a conservative is a liberal who's been mugged. There's a whole generation of young whites who have a lot of muggings coming their way. Right now they are in the full flush of youthful passion and idealism, scornful of older people (i.e. people with significant life experience) and sure that they have discovered new amazing truths that old fools can't see.

The easy conclusion is that there will probably never be a more disillusioned generation of people in American history than the generation of young whites who are voting for Obama. By the time they are in their middle age they will shake their heads sadly that they could have been so wrong.

My response:

America is not South Africa.

The correct quote, from Irwin Stelzer, was that "a neo-conservative was a liberal who had been mugged by reality". Please don't let that incoherent comment be the reason for endorsing Obama.

While I am amazed at the disregard the Republicans had for conservative values, I think the truth of Steltzers' comment will become evident during the course of the Obama presidency. He was the best choice of two very poor ones (although i wish i could say the same about his party - in truth neither are fit to lead).

Good luck everyone. The world needs sound American leadership. Let's hope that that is what we get.

[ThePythonicCow]

Re: Vote for Obama. Here's why.

Do you think ThePythonicCow could be a "victim of serious child abuse"? ;)

Good question. No - I was not the abused child. I am the loner, who stands in the corner, watching others, even as I am being social. I live and die by my ability to see the reality of what is before me and to act on that insight. I remain vigilant, like a good sheep dog, for the unexpected, the dangerous, the threat.

[BrianL]

Re: Vote for Obama. Here's why.

I want to be sure I understand your position. In your mind, are high charisma and strong morals at opposite ends of the same axis?

If so, I have a different point of view. I believe that a person is defined by their values. Values are uniquely individual, established by a lifetime of experience. I don't believe it is possible to completely know a persons values - we can only see what people choose to share.

People with high charisma, with elequent words and controlled manners, can hide their values better than the rest of us. This doesn't make them more malleable; values and strength of character dictate this. Charisma is simply a tool.

[Or programmer to programmer, I view charisma as a void*. It has uses and can be very powerful, but it requires additional inspection to be sure it is used correctly. In the wrong hands, we get corruption and crashes. ]

[ThePythonicCow]

Re: Vote for Obama. Here's why.

I want to be sure I understand your position. In your mind, are high charisma and strong morals at opposite ends of the same axis?

No - not necessarily at all. I see no general rule correlating charisma and morality.

High charisma is an uncommon, but quite useful, talent. When rooted in a personality that has integrity, it can be a beautiful talent. When rooted in a personality that is deeply split by some unspeakable terror of childhood, it can be a dangerous talent.

[Or programmer to programmer, I view charisma as a void*. It has uses and can be very powerful, but it requires additional inspection to be sure it is used correctly. In the wrong hands, we get corruption and crashes. ]

Yup.

[ThePythonicCow]

Re: Vote for Obama. Here's why.

Instead of debating ThePythonicCow, calling him (her?)

Him, quite definitely, despite the odd screen name.

[ThePythonicCow]

Re: Vote for Obama. Here's why.

Well he won, so hopefully you're a whacked out nut job.

I sure hope so.

[Chris]

Re: Vote for Obama. Here's why.

John McCain - what a dignified man. His concession speech was utterly beautiful. It's a shame those Neanderthals in the audience kept boo-ing at the mention of the name Obama.

[medved]

Re: Vote for Obama. Here's why.

My response:
America is not South Africa.

When I share with Americans my personal experience of living for 30+ years in the former USSR, I hear the same response: "America is not Russia". They could not be more wrong. America is getting more like Russia by the day. People don't believe in their personal effort anymore, they all discuss, how to make the gov't solve all their problems. And everybody (both liberal and 'conservative') believes, gov't is omnipotent. Its "policy on economy" is oh so important!

This is precisely what Russians were and are trying to do. Their only way to solve any problem is to bring a "good czar", whether by revolution or by election.

Yes, America is not Russia. By the same token Lithuania is not Greece. So Lithuania accepted Christianity about 1000 years later with some modifications. But it was still the same religion! Faith in the omnipotent "good government" is the socialist religion, that is haunting Europe for the last 200 years. America is not immune to it.

http://www.house.gov/htbin/blog_inc?...ngdetail.shtml

The only thing Obama will do, is bring more and more regulation in every facet of life. That will create more problems, than solutions. I agree, that current regulation is bad, but it does not mean, there is not enough of it.

[xela]

Re: Vote for Obama. Here's why.

My suspect you are implying a racial fear.

I am confident that you are not correct in your assessment.

I watch people. I know him. America just made a serious mistake.

That would be 3 in a row by your count then?

[ThePythonicCow]

Re: Vote for Obama. Here's why.

I hear the same response: "America is not Russia". They could not be more wrong.

Russia has a flat tax, if I recall correctly, which is less intrusive and more efficient than our income tax. Other nations have a VAT -- do they have an income tax too? If not, that's a point in their favor.

Russia and England and other European countries can still drill for new oil. France can add new nuclear power plants. Many superior natural medicines (work better, cost less) are available in Europe, but not America (where the FDA has become a pawn of a few big drug companies.)

What was different about America was that we had one of the healthiest, well formed constitutional governments and over the last 100+ years, the strongest industrial, agricultural and economic foundation in the world. We also had the advantage that it has been since 1865 that a major war was fought on our land.

Piece by piece the termites of socialism and the encrustation of bureaucracy and the misallocation of wealth from production to "services" and financial asset bubbles has weakened us. The damage is taking a heavy toll.

Fewer and fewer Americans understand the difference between (1) a limited government, formed by responsible citizens to accomplish certain tasks for the common good, within specific enumerated powers, and (2) a government that provides for and is responsible for the general well being of its subjects, providing them with various benefits misnamed as "rights".

The founding notion of America, that we all have unalienable rights, preordained by our Creator, not doled out by some government, and that governments have only limited authority, voluntarilly consented to and perhaps later withdrawn by those forming it, all seem like a quaint anachronism to what is now, clearly by this election, a majority of voting Americans.

[Insert sound of Taps playing on a lone, sad bugle ]

[ThePythonicCow]

Re: Vote for Obama. Here's why.

That would be 3 in a row by your count then?

Three what? I'm not understanding your point - sorry.

[hellstan]

Re: Vote for Obama. Here's why.

I'm more interested to learn about a forthcoming VAT, tax increases, more SS taxes, and of course massive keynsian efforts planned by people who've never had a real job.

phirang,
A french theologian wrote this some time ago : "They worship the effect whom they lament the causes."

All that crap about having cash without paying tax is the form of free lunch
the US had since 8 years - to their expense and the expense of the world.

Plus waging a war with borrowed money from Japs and Chinese.

So please… :mad:

A bit more discipline, here.