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Inflation in America - Part II: Pondering Platinum

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  • Inflation in America - Part II: Pondering Platinum

    Inflation in America - Part II: Pondering Platinum

    Conundrum of the Century: Inflation versus Credit Crunch


    The relative simplicity of the platinum market as compared to oil, gold, or silver, makes platinum an ideal context to review commodity prices in general since prices began to rise in 2001 after the post bubble collapse global reflation. Platinum brings currency, inflation, and demand dynamics for all commodities into focus. This review will also inform our opinion on where we are in the Ka-Poom disinflation-reflation cycle, and we'll wrap an update to Ka-Poom Theory around it.

    The oft neglected step-child among the precious metals (PM), platinum gets far less attention than its more popular PM cousins gold and silver. It trades differently, too. Gold and silver typically move in lock step while platinum follows its own path.

    Platinum, unlike silver and gold, has never had a role as a monetary metal. It has only ever been an industrial metal. Nor is platinum supply influenced by geopolitical or security factors as is oil. More than 90% of platinum production is in Russia and South Africa, nations on more or less friendly terms with the US.

    Platinum supply and demand market characteristics are relatively clear: Platinum is the most precious of the precious metals, more than 30 times more rare than gold yet trades at only slightly more than twice the price of gold. While platinum is rare, a little bit goes a long way. Its primary industrial use is in catalytic converters but is also used in pace makers and jewelry.

    I bought 100 ounces of platinum in 2001 when the price was $425. The purchase was part of my execution of iTulip Ka-Poom Theory post-bubble investment thesis, along with purchases of silver and gold, as explained in Questioning Fashionable Financial Advice, Gold - September 2001.

    As an side, I'm often asked why I purchased physical metals then. The answer is simple: no alternatives existed at the time. Gold and silver ETFs were not yet available. Not until PM investment interest grew after several years of price increases did ETFs become viable, and since then ETFs have created their own demand for gold and silver, which explains why gold and silver prices tend to move in lock step: hedge fund trades tied to ETFs. Part of the recent increase in platinum prices was driven by new investor demand created by platinum ETFs, such as PHPT, launched in 2007. ETFs makes commodities available to investors who would never own physical metal, who are more comfortable purchasing PMs as they do stocks out of their brokerage account.

    Why not PM mining stocks? I concluded a decade ago, as Jim Rogers and others have, that you cannot get exposure to the value of PMs as a dollar hedge by buying mining company stocks. Stocks expose you to management risk and stock market risk, and long term no one gets it right. I was looking to "buy and forget" for the entire period of dollar depreciation, seven years and counting, not stocks in mining companies that I'd have to actively track.

    If I were buying now, would I purchase a gold or silver ETF instead of physical? I'd buy ETFs for the portion of PMs I hold as a hedge against dollar depreciation and physical for the portion of PMs I own to hedge less likely yet more dire potential outcomes of systemic financial system failure.

    As of this writing, platinum is trading $1,992, more than four times what I, or anyone following the thesis, paid for it. Should we sell? If we can answer that question then we have answered a lot of questions about commodity prices. To answer this question, let's step through the five distinct pricing periods since 1992 shown as A through E in the chart below and see what we find.

    Period A shows a seven year stretch of stable platinum prices around $400 between 1992 and 1999. Then between 1999 and 2000, during stock market bubble Period B, prices rose more than 30% only to collapse with the stock bubble in the 2000 to 2001 post bubble asset price deflation, recession, and disinflationary Period C. Then starting at the end of 2001, reflation Period D, fed primarily by dollar depreciation, platinum prices shot up to $1,530 by the end of 2007. Finally, the current era Period E saw prices leap to over $2,273 on March 4, 2008. Since then they have settled back to just under $2,000.

    The most controversial and confusing period is the current one, Period E. What drove platinum prices so high so quickly? Clearly not industrial demand. We believe the answer is that sustained weakness in the dollar and the out-sized influence of rising costs of imported energy on all goods prices starting in 2004 led to steadily rising inflation expectations, in turn leading to ever increasing investment demand by funds for an ever widening range of commodities in various forms to protect the purchasing power of wealth. The emergence of platinum ETFs facilitated fund buying of platinum.

    Unfortunately, purchases of commodities by funds to hedge inflation caused by a weak currency is self-reinforcing as demand for commodities as a hedge drives up demand for the commodities themselves.

    Also complicating the picture, as we cover in detail this week in Anatomy of a collapsing oil anti-bubble: Is oil “too expensive” now or was it “too cheap” before? is the impact of rising energy prices as an input to commodity prices: growing, mining, shipping and otherwise bringing commodities to market is a function of the cost of energy needed to extract, process, and move it. On top of that we have the credit crunch beginning to limit access to capital to fund mining operations, including energy projects. (We were recently invited to an energy conference that featured a seminar on the growing impact of the credit crunch on energy projects; these are mostly debt not equity financed.) It all adds up to one monumental mess of inflation and credit contraction in a feedback loop of falling dollar value, rising prices, falling purchasing power, debt deflation, credit contraction, and a weakening economy, with no clear way out.

    While 1999 Ka-Poom Theory served us well to time the purchase of our PM dollar depreciation hedges, it did not take into account six developments we were not able to foresee nine years ago.

    Ka-Poom Theory Revisited

    The six unexpected developments for the current cycle are:
    1. As we mention in our About page when we re-launched iTulip March 2006, we did not foresee the housing bubble, believing wrongly that the Fed would never allow one to develop because collapsing property bubbles invariably bring down economies and banking systems. We did begin to write about the bubble in August 2002 and described the collapse dynamics in detail in 2004 and 2005. These forecasts are still holding up, and we will update them in the future. With respect to Ka-Poom Theory, the dynamic of the disinflationary impact of a collapsing housing bubble is a characterized by a gradual versus rapid mark to market of declining property assets. The resulting graduated negative wealth effect and loss of value of collateral against loans allows the Fed to compensate in broader and more varies terms, and less dramatically, than during the 2001 period when the crashing assets were stocks not houses. That caused a near instantaneous and simultaneous mark to market of stock portfolios. This time the effect is more broad and we believe will be far more severe.

      As I explained to my publisher at Penguin, if the crashing stock market in 2000 was a monetary 500 pound wrecking ball stopped by emergency rate cuts, the collapsing housing market is a 20 ton steam roller running down everything in its path until it heads for the bottom of the FIRE Economy hill. The process is but slow but inexorable.

    2. We knew from our readings of Fed intentions as noted in No Deflation! Disinflation then Lots of Inflation years before the credit crisis, and from conference calls such as with Goldman Sachs during the crisis, such as Goldman Sachs Client Call - Analysis, that the Fed was prepared to be "creative" in its effort to avert a self-reinforcing debt and monetary deflation. What we could not have known in 1999 was that the Bernanke Fed was willing to, in the words of Paul Volcker, overstep its legal authority to provide funds, permanently, to financial institutions that the Fed is not chartered to support. This has, so far, prevented a sudden and wholesale collapse of the exogenous credit markets, but also makes them less exogenous and more directly tied to government credit and money creation.

    3. Currency depreciation is discussed in the central banking theory literature as a short term policy tool to be used in combination with other reflation policies, such as rate cuts, to ward off a deflationary spillover into the real economy of crashing asset prices after the collapse of an asset price bubble. After more than four years of dollar decline, it is apparent that dollar depreciation is the primary tool on which the Fed has come to depend to prevent asset price deflation from spilling over into the Production/Consumption Economy from the financial sectors of the FIRE Economy.

      The result of this depreciation has been Poom-like inflation albeit without the large scale sales of dollar denominated assets or a rise in bond yields we expected – at least not yet.

    4. Willingness of foreign central banks to step in to provide funds sufficient to maintain low Treasury bond yields to compensate for decreased demand from private markets.

    5. Peak Cheap Oil, that is, the peak, most likely around 2006, of global supply of easily accessible, high grade crude that global refineries are geared to process and that are used for transportation. Combined with the dollar depreciation that we did anticipate and the oil subsidies provided by oil producing and Asian governments, rapidly rising energy prices are also feeding "Poom" inflation. In the current Ka-Poom cycle, we are getting the inflationary result we expected but not from the precise set of causes and processes we anticipated.

    6. The first "preemptive war" with Iraq War was unimaginable. The result is threefold with respect to Ka-Poom Theory. First, the war reduced US political power in the region such that the quid pro quo exchange of military protection of oil exporting regimes for oil below market prices is less effectual. Second, the global central banking dollar cartel that created artificial demand for dollars has weakened due to competition from the euro and loss of political support from US allies that help support the dollar by purchases of dollar denominated assets and depreciation of their own currencies. Third, the cost of the war has meant that borrowing for unproductive purposes has crowded out productive borrowing by both public and private sectors. This invariable shows up as inflation and lower productivity, as occurred years after the end of the Vietnam War.

    Conundrum of the Century

    Here's where we are in our updated Ka-Poom cycle in the context of platinum prices:
    Period A: Normal industrial demand market – commodity supply and demand dominates

    Period B: Asset and goods price inflation – commodity prices respond to inflation

    Period C: Asset price deflation and goods price disinflation – commodity prices respond to disinflation

    Period D: Dollar depreciated to reflate the economy – commodity prices respond to dollar weakness

    Period E: Rising import prices feeds inflation cycle - commodity prices respond to currency hedging investment demand
    This does not mean that "Poom" as originally conceived, with a large scale sell-off of dollar denominated assets and spiking interest rates, cannot still happen. At a recent meeting we were told by a hedge fund manager with over $1 billion in his fund and 30 years of experience under his belt that "now" is when Treasuries finally buckle. But the current post-housing bubble disinflationary "Ka" period will continue to be managed via Fed policy to attempt to prevent the transmission of asset price deflation into the real economy. The inflation that results reduces the likelihood of a sustained decline of all-goods and commodities prices. In fact, the ongoing reliance on currency depreciation as the primary policy tool to maintain flagging GDP growth means that inflation may continue to be fed into the system even as the recession progresses.

    We expect a leveling off or even a decline in commodity prices in the months ahead as the US credit crunch and recession impact global demand. Declines in some commodity prices over the past few months indicate that the recession is beginning to lower inflation expectations among investors. However, the conundrum of the century remains: inflation expectations cannot be lowered as they were in the early 1980 unless the root cause, a weak dollar pushing up import prices, is addressed dramatically with rate hikes to cause the dollar to appreciate, yet the over-leveraged US financial system is struggling with interest rates near 30 year lows as debt deflation and credit contraction grip the economy and intensify. The one action that the Fed can take to slow inflation is the one action it cannot take without pushing the staggering economy off a cliff into the kind of self-reinforcing debt deflation abyss as the US experienced in the 1930s.

    There is no obvious resolution to this conundrum. The most likely event that moves commodity prices is a next step in the financial crisis that forces the Fed to cut rates again. This, it seems to us, is far more probable than a resolution of the dollar crisis by rate hikes that will invariably deepen the recession, especially in an election year when 28 million Americans are already on food stamps, the highest number on record. For this reason, even though platinum prices are showing all the signs of a blow-off top driven by investor fears of further dollar weakness and more inflation, and the recent spike looks precarious, I cannot convince myself that selling is prudent at this time. If indeed more crises events are coming, dollar sentiment is likely to get worse before it gets better. It will pay to stay close to the funds that have been driving the PM market this year to make sure we know what they are thinking, hopefully before they act.

    See: Inflation in America - Part I: Five signs of inflation

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    Last edited by FRED; June 04, 2008, 08:24 PM.

  • #2
    Re: Inflation in America - Part II: Pondering Platinum

    I think you mean South Africa instead of South America. For platinum in particular, supply concerns have caused a bit of a run up as of late. However, since all PMs have increased in price, it probably has more to do what your thesis than physical fundamentals.

    Thanks for the insight as usual.

    Comment


    • #3
      Re: Inflation in America - Part II: Pondering Platinum

      Energy inflation charts from the St. Louis Fed look a lot like the platinum charts, no?




      Ed.

      Comment


      • #4
        Re: Inflation in America - Part II: Pondering Platinum

        Originally posted by FRED View Post
        Energy inflation charts from the St. Louis Fed look a lot like the platinum charts, no?





        I think since March, they don't look so much alike. http://stockcharts.com/h-sc/ui?s=$pl...d=p10985514168
        Jim 69 y/o

        "...Texans...the lowest form of white man there is." Robert Duvall, as Al Sieber, in "Geronimo." (see "Location" for examples.)

        Dedicated to the idea that all people deserve a chance for a healthy productive life. B&M Gates Fdn.

        Good judgement comes from experience; experience comes from bad judgement. Unknown.

        Comment


        • #5
          Re: Inflation in America - Part II: Pondering Platinum

          Originally posted by Jim Nickerson View Post
          I think since March, they don't look so much alike. http://stockcharts.com/h-sc/ui?s=$pl...d=p10985514168
          from 1992 the platinum chart is the fed energy chart...





          what are you saying? yes for 16 years but not since march 2008? if so, any bright ideas why? that'd be good to know...

          Comment


          • #6
            Re: Inflation in America - Part II: Pondering Platinum

            I think something of a false dichotomy is set up in this essay. What if the Fed raises rates, but it lags far behind inflation? That would be the worst of both words: negative real interest rates stoking commodities buying, while increases hammer the real economy. And it would be quite bullish for precious metals.

            But the Fed will raise rates, because the market is already trading at higher interest rates (even Treasuries). I suspect they will drag their feet on the way up, as they did on the way down, creating the above scenario.

            Really, the Fed is not in the driver's seat. They now lack control over most debt pricing that touches the real economy. The complacent illusion they had created since the last major recession is now shattering. All they can do is slow down the process of reckoning a tiny bit by continuing to pretend they're in control and everything's OK (of course, direct interventions like the JP Morgan bailout are more substantial... and destructive).

            By the way, I would switch some (most?) of my platinum holdings into silver:

            http://www.reuters.com/article/rbssI...26231020080423

            Comment


            • #7
              Re: Inflation in America - Part II: Pondering Platinum

              Originally posted by akrowne View Post
              What if the Fed raises rates, but it lags far behind inflation? That would be the worst of both words: negative real interest rates stoking commodities buying, while increases hammer the real economy.
              Originally posted by akrowne View Post
              By the way, I would switch some (most?) of my platinum holdings into silver [ ed. - due to the catalyst story ] .
              Aaron - As to the first point, I think you are spot on. Fed must embark at some point on a raising cycle, and they will trail real inflation all the way up. Rising rates, with permanently negative real rate as part of the picture is perhaps the most sustainably friendly environment for the PM's to carry on their bull market. Soon we may see a rising USD vs. the Euro, right alongside a robustly upwards trending PM's price. Euro, dollar and everything else beginning to fall more steeply vs. gold.

              With regard to your second point, the auto catalyst story for silver? That's a marginal input to the silver price going forwards. We are also looking at the emergence of the largest production increase in silver this year of the past 15 years. I would suggest that the really big trigger for silver is investment demand, if inflation keeps hotting up. In gold, correct me if you think I'm wrong, but the great majority of it's existing demand is already pure investment demand - 90% or more. In silver, a whisper thin 7% of it's consumption today is in fact investment demand, all the rest being industrial consumption that is inching up rather than shrinking annually. No "give" there. And I've read that real silver production is only around 650 million ounces annually.

              Silver presents a "niagara falls squeezing through a fire hose" effect if investment interest in silver picks up just a fraction, as the entire stock of above ground silver in the world is something like .05 of the global pool of capital. It's just not there for any serious investment demand, as a single billionaire could suck up the entire global stock, and even there that global stock is now largely dispersed into myriad small investor hands.

              In this environment, as gold heads to $2000, if even just a slight uptick of interest in silver occurs, such as investment demand in silver inching up from 7% of it's annual mined supply to something like 15%-20% of it's annual mined supply this is virtually a lock to cause a hopeless run on physical silver stores. "Silver is cheap to Gold", and "Cheap is Good Because it Has Lower Price Risk". That's all the investing public needs to get a notion about, and the present 7% investment quota in silver will start to inch up. Then the price action feeds the interest, which feeds the price action, and it's off to the races for silver.

              Silver catalytic converters would in this scenario be a small corollary of any up-tic in investment demand.
              Last edited by Contemptuous; June 05, 2008, 01:43 AM.

              Comment


              • #8
                Re: Inflation in America - Part II: Pondering Platinum

                Originally posted by akrowne View Post
                By the way, I would switch some (most?) of my platinum holdings into silver:
                I wonder if palladium might make a comeback. No reaction to this news has showed up in the spot price:

                Arata-Zhang LENR Demonstration

                Given the sad history of Pons and Fleischmann, I hate to toss a cold fusion story into the fray -- but unless this "demonstration" was an intentional hoax, or incorrectly reported, the basic evidence of a nuclear reaction sounds fairly solid.

                Evolution of heat alone is not overly convincing because it is known that chemical processes can liberate heat when hydrogen is absorbed onto ZrO[2]/Pd nanoparticles. However, Professor Takahashi -- quoted in the article -- says production of helium was demonstrated. Provided that this is not a hoax, and helium was measured well above the noise floor of the instrumentation, that would seem to prove that nuclear fusion was taking place. Since helium is an element, there is no non-nuclear process that could liberate helium from materials that did not already contain helium.

                Elsewhere I have read an account of a control experiment that shows no long-lasting evolution of heat when regular hydrogen (as opposed to deuterium) was used. This is fairly good evidence that some of the heat generated was from something other than a chemical reaction, but it is not conclusive. The vibrational energy levels and chemical behavior of heavy hydrogen (deuterium) molecules is different from regular hydrogen molecules, even though the chemical valence of the two isotopes of hydrogen is the same. Broadly speaking, the chemistry of H[2] and D[2] should be similar, but things like heat capacity and reaction rates are not the same, so this demonstration is not iron clad.

                I do know that "first principles" calculations based upon the Pons and Fleischmann experiment concluded that deuterium atoms adsorbed in palladium were unlikely to get close enough for a low-temperature fusion reaction to take place. Also, when I was an undergrad at Caltech, my freshman chemistry professor was one of the scientists who had attempted to reproduce the results of Pons and Fleischmann, and who contributed to discrediting their claims. Thus, I am naturally skeptical of "fusion in a beaker." That said, significant production of helium would be pretty ironclad evidence -- and science is fundamentally an empirical discipline.

                For those interested, This Wikipedia article describes a type of cold fusion which is uncontroversial -- but also not particularly useful. Muon-catalyzed cold fusion has been well-studied, but is not an efficient means of producing energy.

                Anyway, since the iTulip community seems to combine interest in precious metals AND alternative energy, I thought I'd pass this along. Consider it a rumor until you see articles published in peer-reviewed journals and reports of other labs reproducing the results. There are a number of "fringe" science publications which run articles on weird phenomena all the time. I'm not sure how reliable the publications I linked are because I am not a frequent reader of them. Still... it is interesting, no?

                Comment


                • #9
                  Re: Inflation in America - Part II: Pondering Platinum

                  Originally posted by Lukester View Post
                  Aaron - As to the first point, I think you are spot on. Fed must embark at some point on a raising cycle, and they will trail real inflation all the way up. Rising rates, with permanently negative real rate as part of the picture is perhaps the most sustainably friendly environment for the PM's to carry on their bull market. Soon we may see a rising USD vs. the Euro, right alongside a robustly upwards trending PM's price. Euro, dollar and everything else beginning to fall more steeply vs. gold.

                  With regard to your second point, the auto catalyst story for silver? That's a marginal input to the silver price going forwards. We are also looking at the emergence of the largest production increase in silver this year of the past 15 years. I would suggest that the really big trigger for silver is investment demand, if inflation keeps hotting up. In gold, correct me if you think I'm wrong, but the great majority of it's existing demand is already pure investment demand - 90% or more. In silver, a whisper thin 7% of it's consumption today is in fact investment demand, all the rest being industrial consumption that is inching up rather than shrinking annually. No "give" there. And I've read that real silver production is only around 650 million ounces annually.

                  Silver presents a "niagara falls squeezing through a fire hose" effect if investment interest in silver picks up just a fraction, as the entire stock of above ground silver in the world is something like .05 of the global pool of capital. It's just not there for any serious investment demand, as a single billionaire could suck up the entire global stock, and even there that global stock is now largely dispersed into myriad small investor hands.

                  In this environment, as gold heads to $2000, if even just a slight uptick of interest in silver occurs, such as investment demand in silver inching up from 7% of it's annual mined supply to something like 15%-20% of it's annual mined supply this is virtually a lock to cause a hopeless run on physical silver stores. "Silver is cheap to Gold", and "Cheap is Good Because it Has Lower Price Risk". That's all the investing public needs to get a notion about, and the present 7% investment quota in silver will start to inch up. Then the price action feeds the interest, which feeds the price action, and it's off to the races for silver.

                  Silver catalytic converters would in this scenario be a small corollary of any up-tic in investment demand.
                  That's why I like Oil [compared to gold and silver]. No arguments about "investment demand" versus industrial demand (unless you're a clueless US politician blaming speculators), nobody wears it as jewelry, nobody gives it to anyone as a wedding gift (not even in Arabia ), nobody worries if it's really there locked up in a Central Bank vault instead of being lent out to bullion banks, and there's no photographic use or arguments whether that recycled scrap is really new supply or not.

                  Finally, once you burn that barrel she's gone baby, and nobody questions that another barrel needs to be found, produced and refined to replace it (well, nobody but select US Congresspersons)...;)

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Re: Inflation in America - Part II: Pondering Platinum

                    Originally posted by GRG55 View Post
                    That's why I like Oil [compared to gold and silver]. No arguments about "investment demand" versus industrial demand (unless you're a clueless US politician blaming speculators), nobody wears it as jewelry, nobody gives it to anyone as a wedding gift (not even in Arabia ), nobody worries if it's really there locked up in a Central Bank vault instead of being lent out to bullion banks, and there's no photographic use or arguments whether that recycled scrap is really new supply or not.

                    Finally, once you burn that barrel she's gone baby, and nobody questions that another barrel needs to be found, produced and refined to replace it (well, nobody but select US Congresspersons)...;)
                    GRG55, do you have any suggestions about good ways to invest in oil for someone in the U.S.?

                    Thanks
                    raja
                    Boycott Big Banks • Vote Out Incumbents

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Re: Inflation in America - Part II: Pondering Platinum

                      Originally posted by akrowne View Post
                      I think something of a false dichotomy is set up in this essay. What if the Fed raises rates, but it lags far behind inflation? That would be the worst of both words: negative real interest rates stoking commodities buying, while increases hammer the real economy. And it would be quite bullish for precious metals.

                      But the Fed will raise rates, because the market is already trading at higher interest rates (even Treasuries). I suspect they will drag their feet on the way up, as they did on the way down, creating the above scenario.

                      Really, the Fed is not in the driver's seat. They now lack control over most debt pricing that touches the real economy. The complacent illusion they had created since the last major recession is now shattering. All they can do is slow down the process of reckoning a tiny bit by continuing to pretend they're in control and everything's OK (of course, direct interventions like the JP Morgan bailout are more substantial... and destructive).

                      By the way, I would switch some (most?) of my platinum holdings into silver:

                      http://www.reuters.com/article/rbssI...26231020080423
                      aaron, think the intention of this was to highlight stuff that's changed since ka-poom theory 1999. where does this article say the fed is leading? the fed chasing inflation down then up is a part of the original ka-poom theory that's still holding up. you probably learned that idea here 9 years ago... so long ago you forgot. happens to me all the time.

                      where does he say the fed won't raise interest rates? he says it's not imminent and, reading between the lines, will use contacts in the funds to decide when everyone else thinks they will and it's time to bail.

                      question: gold and silver sales incur a 'collectibles' 35% capital gains tax rate on profits. does platinum? can't imagine it does. may be a reason to hang onto it vs switching to a high tax rate metal that the government doesn't mind you owning...

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Re: Inflation in America - Part II: Pondering Platinum

                        I pretty much agree, but I wouldn't play down the platinum->silver catalystic conversion story. When you can eliminate all platinum and replace it with a metal that costs 1/100th as much, there is a pretty unambiguous case for substitution.

                        However checking up on the demand numbers it looks like total platinum catalytic converter demand is only about 7 million oz/yr. Platinum supplies are a bit lower than this. So assuming all of that is converted to silver ounce-to-ounce, it'd have a much larger deleterious effect on the platinum price than boost to the silver price (silver does indeed have a supply of about 650 million oz/yr).

                        I definitely agree that rising investor demand is the biggest factor. But the above dynamics look scary enough for me to probably stay out of platinum ;)

                        Actually some of the reading I did suggested gold alloys are being explored for replacing platinum as well. What we are getting here is the classic free market substitution effect from too-high prices (of platinum)!

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Re: Inflation in America - Part II: Pondering Platinum

                          Originally posted by akrowne View Post
                          I pretty much agree, but I wouldn't play down the platinum->silver catalystic conversion story. When you can eliminate all platinum and replace it with a metal that costs 1/100th as much, there is a pretty unambiguous case for substitution.

                          However checking up on the demand numbers it looks like total platinum catalytic converter demand is only about 7 million oz/yr. Platinum supplies are a bit lower than this. So assuming all of that is converted to silver ounce-to-ounce, it'd have a much larger deleterious effect on the platinum price than boost to the silver price (silver does indeed have a supply of about 650 million oz/yr).

                          I definitely agree that rising investor demand is the biggest factor. But the above dynamics look scary enough for me to probably stay out of platinum ;)

                          Actually some of the reading I did suggested gold alloys are being explored for replacing platinum as well. What we are getting here is the classic free market substitution effect from too-high prices (of platinum)!
                          good point. you can bet manufacturers are looking for ways around platinum at $2k. happened with copper... got too expensive so manufacturers said 'screw this' and switched to aluminum where they were able. then the price of aluminum went up. then copper again.

                          ej does not say if he'd be a buyer at $2K. kinda dodged that one... assuming everyone reading has been following along since 2001?

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Re: Inflation in America - Part II: Pondering Platinum

                            Don't forget the other important part of physical PMs: portability.

                            $100K in silver is a serious 150 lbs - not easy to run with that strapped on your back.

                            In gold, it can be hidden in a pocket as a couple of rolls of quarters.

                            For platinum, it can be hidden in even more ways - a la the watch in 'Pulp Fiction'.

                            If you really think things are going to get ugly...

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Re: Inflation in America - Part II: Pondering Platinum

                              Originally posted by c1ue View Post
                              For platinum, it can be hidden in even more ways - a la the watch in 'Pulp Fiction'.
                              if for some reason i ever buy platinum from you, pls remind me to wash it

                              Comment

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