Economic Crisis Avoidance Deus ex Machina - Part I: Active Asset Price Inflation - Eric Janszen

[metalman]

Re: Economic Crisis Avoidance Deus ex Machina - Part I: Active Asset Price Inflation - Eric Janszen

If you can see patterns in the data and know that if you change a variable here and there a different outcome is possible then of course politicians will go for it, this has been going on long before AI, its just that the way they did it by mining data from Facebook was out of hand, also this method is a little more precise.

pols see patterns in the data today...

https://www.theverge.com/2018/12/11/...d-notification

https://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry...b0ac53717a0d26

after this when you google 'idiot' you get... 'united states congress'

[metalman]

Re: Economic Crisis Avoidance Deus ex Machina - Part I: Active Asset Price Inflation - Eric Janszen

'everyone knew' until nov. 27 'no santa claus rally this year' after markets fell for 2 mo...

... then it was on after a 5% rally...

...then it was off again after a 10% correction...



...now it's on again....



friggin random...

[Woodsman]

Re: Economic Crisis Avoidance Deus ex Machina - Part I: Active Asset Price Inflation - Eric Janszen

Nothing much to add to all of this, except to say that I still think it's a choice...

You bet it's a choice. And maybe YouTube leans towards the Fash, maybe it doesn't. But Google search is reliably oriented toward enforcing the politically correct orthodoxy.

Here's an interesting experiment. Open google.com, search for "American inventors" and you get this:



Search for "black inventors" and you get this:



If you search for "white inventors" you get this:



And a search for "inventors" gets you no pictures at all, just a list:



This appears to be the Google Search Team's effort to propagandize American schoolchildren in K-12 towards politically correct goodthink. Because if you search "American psychologists" - a subject generally of interest to college undergraduates and above - you'll get a pretty unremarkable list with William James and B.F. Skinner at the top:



As a control, open google.mx, search "inventor americano" and you get this:



The Mexican Top 50 American inventors includes 46 white men, two black men, and two white women (with Hispanics and Asians generally absent). So as it turns out, the Mexican Google winds up being the least politicized and most even handed treatment of them all.

Interestingly enough, the Mexican Google has 18th Century inventor and entrepreneur John Fitch as 12th on the list. He is an ancestor of 20th Century inventor John Fitch. Unless you're a gear head you likely never heard of John Fitch, but you see his work every time you get on the freeway. He's the guy who invented those garbage can-looking things filled with sand that help keep you from crashing into bridge abutments. Fitch was motivated to come up with this in the aftermath of the 1955 24 Hours at Le Mans auto race when his partner’s Mercedes flew off the track at 150 mph and into the stands killing 83 spectators.

Maybe the American schoolchildren of the future will be taught the extraordinary contributions of men like Fitch, but this little experiment makes me doubtful. Not as long as we have companies like Google grinding away at history like Syme and the Eleventh Edition of the Newspeak Dictionary.

After all, who is going to remember men like Fitch whose work has saved hundreds of thousands of lives when there's so much diversity to celebrate!

[dcarrigg]

Re: Economic Crisis Avoidance Deus ex Machina - Part I: Active Asset Price Inflation - Eric Janszen

Point was, these were fresh searches with no history.

[dcarrigg]

Re: Economic Crisis Avoidance Deus ex Machina - Part I: Active Asset Price Inflation - Eric Janszen

I agree it's a choice. In this specific case, I think it's jus duplicating African American Inventors when you type American Inventors, which is screwed up. If you type United States Inventors you get a very different list. There are all sorts of problems with the Google search bar still. And this is one of them. I'm not sure if this particular example is evidence of goodthink. But it's wrong all the same.

[lakedaemonian]

Re: Economic Crisis Avoidance Deus ex Machina - Part I: Active Asset Price Inflation - Eric Janszen

Kids are very unlikely to reach these places because the algorithms follow what you watched previously, your experiment is flawed on that basis.

Try watching a couple of kids cartoons, Carter and Steve, road blocks streaming then type in some search words.

I allow my little ones on YouTube and they end up singing "share the love".

It's not to say that there are not problems with these algorithms, they tend to push minds onto more extreme content and even plain false rubbish if your into conspiracy theories and false science.

But the Technology does more good than harm in my opinion and it is magnifying our intelligence, want to know how to mend your Dyson just watch it on YouTube, want to build a mac book pro just enter the search terms in YouTube, having trouble understanding some math problem is watch it on YouTube.

Agreed.

Personal anecdotal example:

I gave my youngest a Rubik’s Cube.

He developed an interest in it.

I directed him to YouTube and encouraged him to learn to solve it and then solve it faster.

In 1982 , the 1st world cubing championship was held with a record single solve time of 22.95 seconds.

My 11 year old solved it in 19 seconds in competition.

He’s not the fastest. He’s not special. He’s normal/average. The cubes are better, but just incrementally.

YouTube allows the instant global sharing of cubing solve algorithms.

Beyond my son’s effort & persistence, YouTube justifiably deserves the bulk of the credit for this radically positive performance spike.

It’s quite remarkable.

[Milton Kuo]

Re: Economic Crisis Avoidance Deus ex Machina - Part I: Active Asset Price Inflation - Eric Janszen

I'm not sure if this particular example is evidence of goodthink. But it's wrong all the same.

It's propaganda and Google knows it. For all of the R&D Google does in natural language processing and the kind of highly-educated people the company hires, such a thing being an error is unimaginable considering how long that problem has been around. Google tries to make it such that their search engine can find relevant things with search terms that regular people use. How many Americans call themselves USAians or U.S. citizens, which is actually more correct than calling themselves Americans?

[dcarrigg]

Re: Economic Crisis Avoidance Deus ex Machina - Part I: Active Asset Price Inflation - Eric Janszen

It's propaganda and Google knows it. For all of the R&D Google does in natural language processing and the kind of highly-educated people the company hires, such a thing being an error is unimaginable considering how long that problem has been around. Google tries to make it such that their search engine can find relevant things with search terms that regular people use. How many Americans call themselves USAians or U.S. citizens, which is actually more correct than calling themselves Americans?

Maybe the algorithm is just dumb. Otherwise, they also do a bunch of stupid things probably as bad jokes or easter eggs or whatever. For about 6 months maybe 2 or 3 years ago when you typed in "Murphy" the definition box came up and just said "Murphy: A Potato." Now when you type in "Murphy" you get stock info for some chain of gas stations I've never heard of. Clearly the latter is about someone paying money to be the first result and get the whole sidebar. The former I have no damn clue why you would do, but we used it to mess with the Murphys in our lives.

But if it were really good goodthink it would be a diverse cast of characters, don't you think?

I mean any corporate ad brochure or ad from the 2010s has the same cast of characters. Pan-ethnic spunky young woman with wild hair in overalls or somehow dressed more casual than everyone else. Sharp dressed light-skinned black dude with shaved head in great shape. Mormon-looking white guy. East Asian woman in sundress. Fox News employee looking woman with dyed blonde hair. Last one might be an older black lady or a tall, thin Hispanic woman or a young Muslim man or something depending on needs and taste. But it's never 100% black.

In fact, there are certain Americans who never show on those things. You never see someone who looks very Italian or Greek or Guatemalan or Cambodian or Russian or Indian from anywhere in the subcontinent. No redheads. At least not in the US ones. There's a real formula to it. The Census categories have to be strongly pronounced.

[Woodsman]

Re: Economic Crisis Avoidance Deus ex Machina - Part I: Active Asset Price Inflation - Eric Janszen

Maybe the algorithm is just dumb...

Or maybe someone everyone agrees is among the very smartest is smartly playing dumb? It's just good mental discipline. Orwell called it Crimestop, but who am I to judge having been a practitioner so many years myself as a condition of service to my Uncle Sugar.

[dcarrigg]

Re: Economic Crisis Avoidance Deus ex Machina - Part I: Active Asset Price Inflation - Eric Janszen

Ok. Fine. What's the long con then? And how would you remedy it?

[Woodsman]

Re: Economic Crisis Avoidance Deus ex Machina - Part I: Active Asset Price Inflation - Eric Janszen

Ok. Fine. What's the long con then? And how would you remedy it?

The perfection of man, of course. And who says it needs remedying. And anyway, "what is truth?"

[dcarrigg]

Re: Economic Crisis Avoidance Deus ex Machina - Part I: Active Asset Price Inflation - Eric Janszen

Would earnestly appreciate it if you'd spell this one out for me a bit more. If it is crimethink, you've probably gotta bring this horse to water at least. Seems like there's some military-industrial angle, and I'm not quite getting it. Besides which, there have always been 2 competing visions of perfection in America. There's the John Winthrop idea. Then there's that other one.

[seobook]

Re: Economic Crisis Avoidance Deus ex Machina - Part I: Active Asset Price Inflation - Eric Janszen

Kids are very unlikely to reach these places because the algorithms follow what you watched previously, your experiment is flawed on that basis.

Try watching a couple of kids cartoons, Carter and Steve, road blocks streaming then type in some search words.

I allow my little ones on YouTube and they end up singing "share the love".

It's not to say that there are not problems with these algorithms, they tend to push minds onto more extreme content and even plain false rubbish if your into conspiracy theories and false science.

But the Technology does more good than harm in my opinion and it is magnifying our intelligence, want to know how to mend your Dyson just watch it on YouTube, want to build a mac book pro just enter the search terms in YouTube, having trouble understanding some math problem watch it on YouTube.

Infants & toddlers are a big market because they don't know to skip the ads.

But many also don't know how to choose topics or back out of crazy videos.

The videos an infant will see will be "on theme" with stuff for them BUT some of them are autogenerated spam. There was actually a controversy over this stuff called Elsagate.

While criticism of the channels themselves has existed since at least 2016, public awareness of the phenomenon grew in 2017, as it became part of a broader controversy about child safety on YouTube. That year, after reports by several media outlets, YouTube adopted stricter guidelines regarding children's content. In late November, the company started to mass delete channels and videos falling into the Elsagate category, as well as large amounts of other inappropriate videos or user's comments relating to children

---

I agree it's a choice. In this specific case, I think it's jus duplicating African American Inventors when you type American Inventors, which is screwed up. If you type United States Inventors you get a very different list. There are all sorts of problems with the Google search bar still. And this is one of them. I'm not sure if this particular example is evidence of goodthink. But it's wrong all the same.

This could be because many black inventors from the United States are listed on some pages as "african amercian inventor _name_" or "_name_, an african american inventor."

When a white american inventor is included in content it might in some cases say inventor from new jersey, or 1800s inventor from the US or so on.

Black history month likely has many homework projects to list famous black inventors or some such as well.

So this would create both the web content context to drive the topical association and then the end user query streams.

Note those black history month school child project-driven search queries would be bucketed into specific geographic areas like the US.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Black_History_Month
No such significant local query bucket for Mexico. (Google Trends shows the phrase at 71 in the US and < 1 in Mexico)
https://trends.google.com/trends/exp...istory%20month

And the Spanish content for that is likely not to read african americano inventor _name_
or such. it might use the spanish word for black & estados unitos or something.

Google has been using user query & clickstream data for a LONG time to influence the meaning of words & what sites are returned for a particular search query.

Back in 2009 an SEO named David Naylor kept seeing some Australia sites showing up in the UK search results on some very specific search queries like [tennis court hire]
https://www.davidnaylor.co.uk/this-d...e-ukserps.html
And if you look at the geographic search volume for those queries there was some bleed over where over 90% of the search queries for the term were from Australia (it was a common phrase in Australia and almost nowhere else).
https://trends.google.com/trends/exp...20court%20hire

In the years since Google has gotten better at localizing user data in terms of folding in clickstream data better to where they give the local country (or in some cases even the local city) more weight.

It's propaganda and Google knows it. For all of the R&D Google does in natural language processing and the kind of highly-educated people the company hires, such a thing being an error is unimaginable considering how long that problem has been around. Google tries to make it such that their search engine can find relevant things with search terms that regular people use. How many Americans call themselves USAians or U.S. citizens, which is actually more correct than calling themselves Americans?

I think Google is aware of & fixes these sorts of problems if someone makes a big deal out of them BUT there isn't really a person who can be the offended party on this particular issue.

Anyone who tried to pitch this issue as significant would be quickly deemed as racist, xenophobic, white nationalist, etc.

And the more effort they used to try to spread the story the more they would be viewed as some retrograde deplorable troll.

The above algorithmic artifact doesn't get the press play that some other sorts of "off" algorithmic associations get.
https://www.theverge.com/2018/1/12/1...n-algorithm-ai

No offended party = no media coverage = no toxic backlash = no issue to fix.

Now when you type in "Murphy" you get stock info for some chain of gas stations I've never heard of. Clearly the latter is about someone paying money to be the first result and get the whole sidebar. The former I have no damn clue why you would do, but we used it to mess with the Murphys in our lives.

The sidebar listings on desktop results are often the first listing on mobile results.

In most cases (though not all) the right sidebar is content pulled from Wikipedia & other sources, something they call the knowledge graph.

Those listings are not directly paid for, however if you get enough press coverage to get in Wikipedia or such then you might show up there.

And there are exceptions where Google does blend some paid aspects in there, related to things like ads for finding local hotels on geographic queries, links for paid media sources for like books or songs or movies, and then in some cases when Google displays Google Shopping Ads they can appear either in the left column or the right rail.

In some cases Google also lists business appointment booking features in the right rail. In many of those cases those integrations are free rather than paid, though after Google creates a dominant user habit they'll flip the switch and make those features paid.

Ok. Fine. What's the long con then? And how would you remedy it?

The long con is the defunding of media & replacing it with scraped content or algorithmically assembled answers that are sometimes more than a bit off.

The solution is to promote paid media subscriptions & dig deeper into topics, but that is sort of counter to the whole information wants to be free (& burred in ads) ethos.

[Woodsman]

Re: Economic Crisis Avoidance Deus ex Machina - Part I: Active Asset Price Inflation - Eric Janszen

Would earnestly appreciate it if you'd spell this one out for me a bit more...

Sure thing.

Go to google.com and search for "black scientists." Then, open a new google window and search "white scientists."

Arrange them side by side and then do a C&C.

Note your immediate impressions, paying particular attention to any emotional response that might arise.

Then, review Orwell's description of thoughtcrime and crimestop and you should have an answer. Hope that helps.

[Chris Coles]

Re: Economic Crisis Avoidance Deus ex Machina - Part I: Active Asset Price Inflation - Eric Janszen

Sure thing.

Go to google.com and search for "black scientists." Then, open a new google window and search "white scientists."

Arrange them side by side and then do a C&C.

Note your immediate impressions, paying particular attention to any emotional response that might arise.

Then, review Orwell's description of thoughtcrime and crimestop and you should have an answer. Hope that helps.

Well that absolutely makes me a criminal; but then Langley has already established that as a fact from my total opposition to their showing me how sickeningly corrupt are the British Civil Service, who it seems would sell their mothers to a witch for a handful of silver cast at their feet; especially if there was other peoples money involved.