You're not going to believe this - Eric Janszen

[LargoWinch]

Re: Yet more amusing emails between EJ and Mish

Hello Largo,
yes I'm aware that this was the response (or more correctly IMO a reaction (i.e driven by emotion)

I'm also aware that it's part of a longstanding ongoing public feud between EJ and Mish.

In my book, justifying the public venting of spleens by saying "Well he started it!" isn't the level of behaviour that I've come to expect from iTulip.

I honestly think allowing a conversation to degenerate into a public mud-slinging match does nobody any good at all. On the contrary, I believe it actually damages the reputations of all parties involved, certainly in my mind.




Well most of the damage had aleady been done by helping to antagonize the situation in the first place, see:

"And, of course, guys like Mike (Mish) Shedlock and Rock Ackerman simply got it wrong, but will never admit it." and using terms like "Duh-flation" for example: http://www.sjsugeology.org/sedlock/1...Etc_080408.pdf

If one wants to indulge one's sense of self-righteousness by mocking others publically (whether one is correct or not) then fine. Just that there's always a cost.

I would have taken it up with Mish personally via email and most importantly in a friendly, human and diplomatic manner with a view to finding common understanding via email, rather than reacting in what quite frankly is an insulting, rude and goading manner.

I also consider it bad manners and a breach of the confidentiality implicit in emails to publish personal emails publically.



In my view, doing nothing at all is a perfectly reasonable option. Sit tight and be right.

EJ say's he's interested in the truth rather than traffic, so no problem, the truth will out eventually no? All comes to him that waits...

Most of us know EJ's superb track record and that his analysis is among the very best available anywhere. In all likelihood Mish will end up being incorrect and quite possibly end up with egg on his face anyway.

And if he doesn't end up with egg on his face, will we cry all the way to the bank?

Cheers,
bagginz

In taking revenge, a man is but even with his enemy; but in passing it over, he is superior.

Sir Francis Bacon

bagginz, although I may not agree with you entirely, I must admit: this is a great post. Keep them coming.

[rogermexico]

Re: You're not going to believe this - Eric Janszen

Even more telling is Zero Hedge at 2490 in the global rankings.

Yes, I was going to add that, and should have...

[Down Under]

Re: You're not going to believe this - Eric Janszen

here's a theory... ej is tired of mishmash the liar using his platform to lie about ej & his own record over & over & over & wants mishmash to stfu & stop lying?

where does ej say he's 100% right about everything? only 100% right re deflation... the topic of the article... that mishmash lied about ej in... again.

you can always tell the mishmash fan... they believe 9000 crap things... worried you might be one? here's a test...

is gold 'real money'?

spot on

[rogermexico]

Re: You're not going to believe this - Eric Janszen

Great source of information, but not public-friendly. No wonder the other guy has more traffic.

I would take Eric Janszen's analyses on used toilet paper published biennially before Mish's cut-and-paste drivel any day. Your judgement suggests a profound lack of appreciation for the valuable content here. EJ is a man who actually gives a shit.

[Down Under]

Re: You're not going to believe this - Eric Janszen

I would take Eric Janszen's analyses on used toilet paper published biennially before Mish's cut-and-paste drivel any day. Your judgement suggests a profound lack of appreciation for the valuable content here. EJ is a man who actually gives a shit.

I suspect close to 100% of EJ's select members would agree; I for one, sure do.

[jiimbergin]

Re: You're not going to believe this - Eric Janszen

I would take Eric Janszen's analyses on used toilet paper published biennially before Mish's cut-and-paste drivel any day. Your judgement suggests a profound lack of appreciation for the valuable content here. EJ is a man who actually gives a shit.

+1

[raja]

Re: Yet more amusing emails between EJ and Mish

Care to expand on this?

Recently, I decided to develop a spring on my farm, and I wanted to build a water tank.
Since I had never done this before, I talked to everyone I could to solicite ideas, and I learned a lot.

I approach the economy the same way . . . .
I read the general news, Bloomberg, Krugman, Mish, iTulip, ZeroHedge . . . and a few other sites from time to time plus other articles that catch my interest.
Mish and Krugman disagree on a lot, yet I gain something from both.

To answer your question, in general I simply find Mish's explanation of the economy more "reasonable" than EJ's.
I have been reading iTulip since 2006. About ago I started reading Mish, and I only occasionally read iTulip now.
That being said, I read every one of EJ's artices.

[cjppjc]

Re: You're not going to believe this - Eric Janszen

I would take Eric Janszen's analyses on used toilet paper published biennially before Mish's cut-and-paste drivel any day. Your judgement suggests a profound lack of appreciation for the valuable content here. EJ is a man who actually gives a shit.

I had never heard of Mish Shedlock until I joined this site. I saw references to Mish here all the time and finally asked who he was. Metalman provided a link. I've since seen other links to Mish's site. There is no comparison. The work and thought that EJ gives is so far above what little I've seen at Mish Shedlock's site. Those who wish EJ has somehow handled it differently, nobody can be perfect to all people all the time. It would probably take a bigger man than most of us know to just keep it in.

[CanuckinTX]

Re: Yet more amusing emails between EJ and Mish

Thanks for clarifying!

[*T*]

Re: You're not going to believe this - Eric Janszen

Sometimes it's hard to hear when someone's trying to help. SalAndRichard has some helpful and useful stuff to say. He/She/They don't deserve this slating. While jpatter66's three points are true, they are also not a reply. It has been said before that EJ could do with a more demanding editor to get the best out of his writing.

Humility is the first step in learning. EJ shows humility before the data. That is why I listen to and respect his opinions and the content of iTulip.
Mish is clever, but does not display humility. When I pointed out a small error (talking about a step forward for US politics by describing Obama as 'the descendent of slaves' - actually he's not, his father was a free African), he replied trying to justify his factually incorrect position. This ego is the root of intellectual dishonesty, and the reason I stopped reading Mish.

Brilliant people are often arrogant. It is the mark of a great man to combine humility and brilliance. EJ is humble before truth, but I did feel the interactions with Mish were a little unbecoming. I don't think people pointing this out deserve to be slapped down. I note EJ himself has not done so.

[touchring]

Re: Yet more amusing emails between EJ and Mish

Recently, I decided to develop a spring on my farm, and I wanted to build a water tank.
Since I had never done this before, I talked to everyone I could to solicite ideas, and I learned a lot.

I approach the economy the same way . . . .
I read the general news, Bloomberg, Krugman, Mish, iTulip, ZeroHedge . . . and a few other sites from time to time plus other articles that catch my interest.
Mish and Krugman disagree on a lot, yet I gain something from both.

To answer your question, in general I simply find Mish's explanation of the economy more "reasonable" than EJ's.
I have been reading iTulip since 2006. About ago I started reading Mish, and I only occasionally read iTulip now.
That being said, I read every one of EJ's artices.

I'm a novice, but I think the views here are too USA centric. I believe that the current inflation is demand driven rather than the effect of money printing. If China and India start to consume, prices will start to rise. The world cannot support 2 USA. Economics 101, Demand rise, price rise. Oh yes, the Indians like gold. And also the Chinese. Both races buy gold for weddings, etc.

[nathanhulick]

Re: You're not going to believe this - Eric Janszen

The fact that he has an audience indicates that people simply are not rigorous about track record - it will never cease to amaze me.

I remember watching CNBC in the late 90s and laughing at how horrible their analysis was. I thought that Jim Cramer was a couple of years away from flipping burgers.

Somehow he has gotten a few books published since then, and even has a couple of TV shows now.

I guess that just goes to show that much of the "investment analysis" available today is merely advertisements for overpriced "investment" products.

[jpatter666]

Re: You're not going to believe this - Eric Janszen

Sometimes it's hard to hear when someone's trying to help. SalAndRichard has some helpful and useful stuff to say. He/She/They don't deserve this slating. While jpatter66's three points are true, they are also not a reply. It has been said before that EJ could do with a more demanding editor to get the best out of his writing.

Humility is the first step in learning. EJ shows humility before the data. That is why I listen to and respect his opinions and the content of iTulip.
Mish is clever, but does not display humility. When I pointed out a small error (talking about a step forward for US politics by describing Obama as 'the descendent of slaves' - actually he's not, his father was a free African), he replied trying to justify his factually incorrect position. This ego is the root of intellectual dishonesty, and the reason I stopped reading Mish.

Brilliant people are often arrogant. It is the mark of a great man to combine humility and brilliance. EJ is humble before truth, but I did feel the interactions with Mish were a little unbecoming. I don't think people pointing this out deserve to be slapped down. I note EJ himself has not done so.

Ouch!

Well, *T*, I respect your opinions, so I took a look back at my reply. You are essentially correct in that I was addressing the ending posts of the post and not the initial commentary. To me, those points were trivial compared to the overall assertion that EJ needed to post more in order to justify the price.

Buuuut....let's look at this in total.

---------------------- le axe -------------------
I agree a reply was in order. Just not via posted private(?) emails and with the lack of dispassion you'd want to see. It was becoming personal and about the individuals, not the ideas. Sometimes when you go there you wind up arguing points just to destroy the opponent, even stuff you don't always believe.

Itulip may be for economic experts, but as a novice I can tell you that if it got its act together in terms of layout it would certainly have many more subscribers than it does now.

-front page is a mess and slow to load due to number of ads. They're clutter that is probably ignored when present in that layout anyway.
-new items from EJ are not always readily apparent to new users.

No argument to any of this. Best that can be said is that hopefully these will be addressed when the new site comes online.

-there is no place to quickly find previous "calls" for reference. If you have a hypothetical "portfolio", why is it not posted prominently rather than some random article? New users want to see a track record at a glance. The absence of such breeds suspicion.

Being a macro site, other than the very big calls, I'm not sure how you could track this. The only major call was buying gold and bonds back in 2001. A few years ago the gold ration was increased. All these positions have done very, very well. There have been some calls to sell stocks/silver which have also done well, but EJ does *not* usually give specifics as to what he is buying/selling. If you are looking for that level of hand-holding, you need to be elsewhere.

- the fonts are not that appealing

Semantics. But noted.

-The front left corner, the first place the eye moves, is not even Itulip material, just random videos from Youtube. My first visits I assumed they were itulip's main focus.

Probably a placeholder for putting up the occasional video. This used to go on earlier, might be addressed by the new site.

-not enough "free" content to draw in new subscribers.

You gotta be kidding.....the first part of every analysis is free, you can access and post of many of the forums. Please name a subscription site where you get as much or more.

-commentaries should be seperate from forums for ease of browsing them.
-organization of archived commentaries should be easier to access.
-way too many random items on front page. Great, you were published in two prominent magazines. But why give years old columns the same amount of space as your most important new commentary?

Hopefully addressed by the new site.

If you're going to charge more than my garbage man does to drive by my house 4 times a month and empty my stinking garbage, at least make sure you have some new information for us at least once a month. Not many subscription services are able to provide services at random long intervals and keep subscribers. "Sorry, there will be no HBO movies this month, but in September we may have extra ones".

True, and don't you find it telling that this site seems to hold on to its subscribers and even add....

[raja]

Re: You're not going to believe this - Eric Janszen

Humility is the first step in learning. EJ shows humility before the data. That is why I listen to and respect his opinions and the content of iTulip.
Mish is clever, but does not display humility. When I pointed out a small error (talking about a step forward for US politics by describing Obama as 'the descendent of slaves' - actually he's not, his father was a free African), he replied trying to justify his factually incorrect position. This ego is the root of intellectual dishonesty, and the reason I stopped reading Mish.

The world is full of arrogant idiots, and the reality is that the best of us are just somewhat less idiotic and arrogant than the rest. Therefore, I judge people on a sliding scale -- it's all a matter of degree . . . .

Although I can believe that Mish did as you say, I don't think this particular failure -- or even a small strain of ongoing intellectual stubbornness -- significantly diminishes what he has to say overall. Still, it's wise to be vigilant.

Nobody knows the future, yet those of us who are investors have to gamble regardless of this inherent state of ignorance. We have a lot "invested" in being right, and we don't want to hear it, and often can't receive it, when someone criticizes our trusted guides. Complain about a pundit on his own website, and be prepared to be attacked by the majority. Such criticisms are best made obliquely, and those who are able to benefit will get it.

While "the ego is the root intellectual dishonesty", greed is also a root of intellectual dishonesty, and some internet pundits clearly talk their book. An example: someone makes a call, finds out the call is wrong, but doesn't inform his subscribers of this right away because he doesn't want to soil his reputation. As a result, subscribers lose money. This happened to me . . . .

[thedrifter]

Re: Yet more amusing emails between EJ and Mish

I am a former select member here and current lurker. I have always enjoyed this site and respect (most of) the opinions posted here. But I was not impressed with the tenor (and some of the content) of EJ's responses to Mish and the posting of those responses for all to see. The original post in this thread was all that was needed. The rest have hurt my impression of EJ and this site. I say this only to encourage EJ to refrain from similar posts in the future. Credibility is key, even with people like me who read this site and others for facts, worthy opinions and possible guidance.