iTulip endorses the Fair Treatment for Precious Metals Investors Act

[Thailandnotes]

Re: iTulip endorses the Fair Treatment for Precious Metals Investors Act

There is already a big black market in gold. I wonder if itulip folks would be willing to talk about what they know. I am quite sure I can sell 30 oz of gold in the states and not report it or get caught.

[DSpencer]

Re: iTulip endorses the Fair Treatment for Precious Metals Investors Act

There is already a big black market in gold. I wonder if itulip folks would be willing to talk about what they know. I am quite sure I can sell 30 oz of gold in the states and not report it or get caught.

I agree that it's probably possible at the moment but while 30oz is a lot to some people it won't help people with significant gold holdings. I can't imagine someone selling dozens of kilo bars for cash.

It's also not likely to get any easier. There's already reporting on large (10k + I believe) cash transactions and now the 1099 legislation. So on one hand they make the taxes unfair and then on the other hand they make sure you can't avoid them by requiring lots reporting information.

I just wish I had the dozens of kilo bars to worry about.

I certainly don't expect a lot of people on iTulip to post about how they cheated the IRS...

[thriftyandboringinohio]

Re: iTulip endorses the Fair Treatment for Precious Metals Investors Act

Considering that gold and silver were supposed to be money themselves, they shouldn't be taxed at all...

Excellent point. None the less, when I convert my Federal Reserve Notes into high quality scotch or a king-size mattress, I pay a tax on the transaction. No reason I shouldn't pay tax when converting gold into FRNs. The only issue of fairness is the tax rate; we shoudn't pay extra harsh taxes on the gold-to-currency transaction.

Perhaps the transaction should be considered not a transaction at all, but changing the form of money, like exchanging a $20 bill for two $10 bills, or moving money from a checking account to a brokerage account. You make a great point, Finster...

[rogermexico]

Re: iTulip endorses the Fair Treatment for Precious Metals Investors Act

voted the 1000 times option but that's not it, either... poll needs an infinity option.

bought gold & silver w/itulip & are both up > 5x... if that's manipulation i say... keep up the good work, boys! taxes, on the other hand, will take $4,400 out of every $10,000 of invested principle... or 44%. what do i get if I divide 44% loss to taxation by 5x gains from/despite 'manipulation'?

'losses' due to manipulation... it's a nonsense poll question. the folks who complain about market manipulation aren't buy & hold gold & silver investors... they don't have enough $$$ in either metal to care about taxes... they're trying to make $$$ by trading gold & silver & are pissed off because they stumble onto the wrong side of trades vs the big, bad banksters.

MM, I think this percentage of initial investment terminology is confusing and misleading.

I think I get the "per principal" math - but comparing taxes bases on the initial investment is senseless for making comparisons. Taxes are on the gains, not on the principal, so percentages of the initial investment are not independent of the gains.

For instance, if your tax rate is 100% on the gain, but there is no gain, the percentage of the principal you pay with 100% confiscation is now zero. So how is that helpful? Why not just compare tax rates to avoid confusion?

Max rate is 28% as a collectible or 15% (20% if Clinton rates return) as regular cap gains.

The difference is a 13% reduction (absolute) or 47% (in the rate) , unless Bush II tax rates expire, and then it goes back to 8% and 29%.

[DSpencer]

Re: iTulip endorses the Fair Treatment for Precious Metals Investors Act

Perhaps the transaction should be considered not a transaction at all, but changing the form of money, like exchanging a $20 bill for two $10 bills, or moving money from a checking account to a brokerage account. You make a great point, Finster...

That is the key part. This would seem to be especially true if you were talking about gold or silver eagles which are in fact legal tender.

In fact, if you were a real crazy person, you might even do something wacky and quote the constitution:

No state shall enter into any treaty, alliance, or confederation; grant letters of marque and reprisal; coin money; emit bills of credit; make anything but gold and silver coin a tender in payment of debts;...

And then if you were that weird you might claim that gold and silver coins are the only truly legal tender. And then you'd wonder how the only constitutional form of money is taxed as a collectible. But that would make you crazy because we all know that judges are infallible and they've said this is A-OK so we shouldn't bother trying to read all those silly words because we'll just get confused.