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Silver price manipulation? If it looks too bad to be true, it probably is - Eric Janszen

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  • #61
    Ted Butler clearly "gets it". Why can't GATA?

    I implore everyone to read the following from Ted Butler (a subscriber-only communication resposted with Ted's permission). More to the point, I want to emphasize Ted's comments about sticking to facts, not fiction. I had nothing to do with him going out of his way to emphasize that the GATA 100:1 hype is counter-productive, but I sure do agree!


    I only wish GATA would do the same, get off this 100:1 rhetoric campaign, and focus on the pertinent and factual evidence they have in hand about the JPM short and Maguire's evidence it's being used for manipulation.


    -xPat
    ---
    A Time to Act


    by Ted Butler

    The reaction to the CFTC meeting on March 25 continues to be great in precious metals circles. More commentary has been generated by this meeting than even I expected. The hearing brought to the forefront the most important issues in silver, namely, position limits, concentration and the allegations of manipulation on the short side. This is great news for silver and gold investors, as it promises to finally expose and remedy the 20-year downward manipulation in silver.

    The hearing and the attendant commentary bring us to an important juncture - what to do now? To properly address this question it is important to understand what brought us this far. What precipitated the CFTC hearing was the simple fact that many hundreds of you wrote to the Commission over the past year or so about the specific issues discussed at the meeting. Without you writing to the Commission, there would have been no public meeting. Therefore, the answer to what to do now is obvious – you must write to them again. This time, the Commission is actively seeking your comments for inclusion in the public record.

    I can’t emphasize how important it is that you write to the CFTC. I will provide you with instructions for how to do so, and even a sample letter. First, I will remind you that our success wasn’t just due to the fact that so many of you had written to the Commission. More importantly, you wrote to them about the substantive issues concerning position limits and concentration in COMEX silver and gold. These are the issues that the Commission has indicated it is interested in, and these are the issues we must stick to now. I promise you that if legitimate speculative position limits are established in COMEX silver futures and the big shorts are not allowed to circumvent those limits, the silver manipulation will be terminated.

    It is important that you not wander too far afield in what you are asking the Commission to address, either because it is out of their jurisdiction or by making comments on unsubstantiated allegations. This will lessen the impact of what must be done. For example, many have recently written to me concerning allegations that there are 100 ounces of paper gold issued for every ounce of real gold that exists. The evidence indicates this is simply not true. There are many times more ounces of real gold than paper gold. The entire gold open interest at the COMEX, one of the largest markets in the world (I think the largest), equals 50 million ounces, and that includes all sorts of spreads that overstate the total amount of this paper gold. There are 2 billion ounces of gold bullion in the world, perhaps 3 billion ounces (out of a total of 5 billion gold ounces in all forms), so there are 40 to 60 times more ounces of gold bullion than the gross open interest on the COMEX. It is true, however, that there are more paper ounces of silver in the world than silver bullion; but not by 100 times, maybe by 1 to 3 times. This includes pool accounts and silver bank certificates. No other commodity has paper obligations greater than what exists in the world. But neither would I raise this issue with the Commission in your comments at this time.

    My advice is not to bring up unproven assertions and matters outside the Commission’s jurisdiction. Stick to the bedrock issues that brought about the hearing in the first place; silver position limits, exemptions to those limits and concentration. Ask the Commission to do what is within their power to do. Keep it simple and direct. By all means be professional and courteous. You are asking the CFTC to do something that is vital for the markets and in the interest of the American public. But above everything else, write to them. Do not think for a moment that your voice will not be heard. Your voice has already been heard and acted on; it will be heard and acted on again, but only if you write to them. This is not complaining; this is about doing something important. It will take a few moments, won’t cost you anything, and promises to make a profound difference. How many better proposals have you been offered today?

    The last time there was a public comment period, unfortunately, I gave you only one day’s notice. Still, hundreds of you took the time to write and have your comments published on the public record. This time, you have until April 26. But please don’t procrastinate; get your comments in now. You will make a difference.

    Here’s the sample letter, followed by the mailing instructions, both email, postal and fax. Feel free to copy it as is, or customize it as you see fit.

    Dear Sir;

    Thank for the opportunity to comment on the issue of position limits for precious metals. Please establish a speculative position limit in COMEX silver of no more than 1500 contracts. Please restrict any hedging exemptions from those limits to legitimate hedgers. Please stop the levels of concentration in COMEX silver futures that have been experienced over the past few years on the short side of the market.

    Sincerely,

    Email – secretary@cftc.gov
    Postal – Secretary of the Commission
    Commodity Futures Trading Commission
    Three Lafayette Centre
    1155 21st Street NW
    Washington, DC 20581

    Fax - 202-418-5521

    Ted Butler
    April 7, 2010

    Comment


    • #62
      Re: Silver price manipulation? If it looks too bad to be true, it probably is - Eric Janszen

      Does anyone on iTulip has a contact at GATA?

      I would love to have them review and comment. Wouldn't that be great?

      Comment


      • #63
        Re: Silver price manipulation? If it looks too bad to be true, it probably is - Eric Janszen

        Originally posted by LargoWinch View Post
        Does anyone on iTulip has a contact at GATA?

        I would love to have them review and comment. Wouldn't that be great?
        Largo,

        I obtained an e-mail address for the senior GATA staff through my contacts, and have forwarded my [unedited] criticisms to them. If I receive any meaningful reply, I'll post it here.

        xPat

        Comment


        • #64
          Re: Silver price manipulation? If it looks too bad to be true, it probably is - Eric Janszen

          xPat,

          Excellent. Now we're getting somewhere maybe.

          I hope you post any response you get from them.

          Thanks

          Comment


          • #65
            Re: Silver price manipulation? If it looks too bad to be true, it probably is - Eric Janszen

            Thanks for the polite and thoughtful posts xPat. To respond properly I need to watch the hearing again and, unfortunately, I won't be able to do that until tonight at the earliest. Day-job keeps interfering. I do have a couple of quick points below subject to re-watching.

            It seemed pretty clear to me that Christian indicated that the LBMA was mostly paper. You are correct, he did not say the words "the LBMA is paper" but taken in context that was the substance of it. He also did not say the words you offer as his possible meaning, that the 100:1 comment was only to inform the commissioners that there are 100 ounces per each contract. That seems to be at least as big of a reach as any Gata has made since it's not what he said.

            I hope others watch and offer their view as to what Christian said.

            In any event, I greatly admire Ted Butler's work and defer to his knowledge. I also think he's correct, regardless of whether there's any truth to the LBMA allegations, that the only hope of effective action from the CFTC is to focus on the issue of the concentrated shorts on Comex. The LBMA issue, if it is one, perhaps can be an issue for another day.

            Pascal

            Comment


            • #66
              Re: Silver price manipulation? If it looks too bad to be true, it probably is - Eric Janszen

              The Latest Gold Fraud Bombshell: Canada's Only Bullion Bank Gold Vault Is Practically Empty, Is The Central Fund Of Canada Insolvent?

              http://www.zerohedge.com/article/lat...ctically-empty

              Continuing on the trail of exposing what is rapidly becoming one of the largest frauds in commodity markets history is the most recent interview by Eric King with GATA's Adrian Douglas, Harvey Orgen (who recently testified before the CFTC hearing) and his son, Lenny, in which the two discuss their visit to the only bullion bank vault in Canada, that of ScotiaMocatta, located at 40 King Street West in Toronto, and find the vault is practically empty. This is a relevant segue to a class action lawsuit filed against Morgan Stanley, which was settled out of court, in which it was alleged that Morgan Stanley told clients it was selling them precious metals that they would own in full and that the company would store, yet even despite charging storage fees was not in actual possession of the bullion. It appears that this kind of lack of physical holdings by all who claim to have gold in storage, is pervasive as the actual gold globally is held primarily in paper or electronic form. Lenny Organ who was the person to enter the vault of ScotiaMocatta, says "What shocked me was how little gold and silver they actually had." Lenny describes exactly how much (or little as the case may be) silver was available - roughly 60,000 ounces. As for gold - 210 400 oz bars, 4,000 maples, 500 eagles, 10 kilo bars, 10 one kilogram pieces of gold nugget form, which Adrian Douglas calculates as being $100 million worth, which is just one tenth of what the Royal Mint of Canada sold in 2008, or over $1 billion worth of gold. As Orgen concludes: "The game ends when the people who own all these paper obligations say enough and take physical delivery, and that's when the mess will occur."
              Also note the interesting detour into what Stephan Spicer, a VP of a major bank and a friend of the proprietor of the Central Fund Of Canada, has said in regard to these observations: he wanted access to his 15,000 oz of silver, and had to wait 6-8 weeks for its to be flown in from Hong Kong. What this may imply for the CFC itself is rather critical - the CFC notes on its website it is in possession of 1.3 million and 67.3 million ounces of gold and silver, respectively. One wonders just how much actual gold is really backing these claims.

              It is funny that central bankers thought they could take the ponzi mentality of infinite dilution of all assets coupled with infinite debt issuance, as they have done to fiat money, and apply it to gold, in essence piling leverage upon leverage. They underestimated gold holders' willingness to be diluted into perpetuity - when the realization that gold owned is just 1% of what is physically deliverable, you will see the biggest bank run in history.

              Link to full Eric King interview.

              Comment


              • #67
                Re: Silver price manipulation? If it looks too bad to be true, it probably is - Eric Janszen

                Ugh. I might feel better about all of this if, as I type, the price wasn't rocketing up in a possible short covering panic.

                Drives home that this isn't an academic discussion.

                Comment


                • #68
                  Re: Silver price manipulation? If it looks too bad to be true, it probably is - Eric Janszen

                  Originally posted by Pascal View Post
                  Ugh. I might feel better about all of this if, as I type, the price wasn't rocketing up in a possible short covering panic.

                  Drives home that this isn't an academic discussion.

                  I know how you feel right now.........

                  Comment


                  • #69
                    Re: Silver price manipulation? If it looks too bad to be true, it probably is - Eric Janszen

                    Originally posted by Pascal View Post
                    Ugh. I might feel better about all of this if, as I type, the price wasn't rocketing up in a possible short covering panic.

                    Drives home that this isn't an academic discussion.
                    This is SILVER. Be prepared for 30% or more occasional dips.

                    Comment


                    • #70
                      Re: Silver price manipulation? If it looks too bad to be true, it probably is - Eric Janszen

                      Originally posted by Spartacus View Post
                      This is SILVER. Be prepared for 30% or more occasional dips.

                      30% dip would place silver around $12.60 an ounce at today spot. I would love to buy into that dip, but I don't know if we will see that price again - at least under the current currency system.

                      Comment


                      • #71
                        Re: Silver price manipulation? If it looks too bad to be true, it probably is - Eric Janszen

                        In the column one of the points is:
                        5. The attempted assassination story is also highly suspect. JPM would only be adding credibility to his futures manipulation story by trying something so stupid. I have to wonder if he himself staged it as a way to generate media attention.


                        Care to back this up with anything besides super spidey senses? While we prattle on on the internet anonymously with our suspicions, publishing what might be considered by some as libelous accusations sans any proof seems wreckless enough to make me wonder about the motivations. I don't know anything about this GATA or any of these people or if they're insane or diabolical or even correct. But when you write a column desparaging someone as silly conspiracy theorists, should you really be making up your own conspiracy theory about their behaviors to prove they're conspiracy quacks?

                        And as for the logic that it would only add credibility to one's accuser to attempt to murder them, that's subject to debate.

                        All of this sure seems like selective reading of the "facts" that seems to have started with a conclusion and worked backwards to create arguments supporting that conclusion. Edit out the pure speculation and you might have a better column.

                        Comment


                        • #72
                          Re: Silver price manipulation? If it looks too bad to be true, it probably is - Eric Janszen

                          Huff Po publishes Bill Murphy (GATA):

                          http://www.huffingtonpost.com/bill-m..._b_528552.html

                          Comment


                          • #73
                            Re: Silver price manipulation? If it looks too bad to be true, it probably is - Eric Janszen

                            I dont know if this has been posted.

                            KingWorldNews have another interview to add more fuel to the fire..

                            NO METAL IN THE VAULT ....:confused::confused:

                            BOMBSHELL RELEASE - Harvey & Lenny Organ & Adrian Douglas: Drop Another Bombshell In What Could End Up Being The Largest Fraud In History - King World News was contacted again by Adrian Douglas, Board of Director for Gata with stunning new information involving the man he testified with at the CFTC meeting Harvey Organ. Harvey, who was invited by the CFTC to testify and his son Lenny describe another piece of the puzzle in what could turn out to be the largest fraud in history. This time a large international bank with almost 15 million customers in 50 countries around the world becomes part of this unfolding saga.
                            I dont own paper gold anymore..

                            Comment


                            • #74
                              Re: Silver price manipulation? If it looks too bad to be true, it probably is - Eric Janszen

                              Looks to me that all sides of the story are getting a fair airing here.

                              Personally, I find the whole subject tiresome and irritating.

                              Since 2001 I've tried to talk many friends and family members into buying gold. After giving them my arguments they'd go off and start to research gold. They'd immediately find themselves confronted with a wall of mysticism, romanticism, sentimental diatribe, ideologically jaded misinterpretations of history, conspiracy theories, and garden variety craziness. Not only did they then decide against investing in gold, to their detriment, but they'd look at me funny.

                              Off the Avenue of Viable Investments for Sound Minded People, gold is an alley where you can buy flaming snake shooters. Hookers mingle with drug dealers in front of the tattoo parlor, next to the Checks Cashed store. If you wind up there once because you took the wrong turn off the 5 on your way to LAX in your rented Jaguar, then okay. Maybe you got lost. But if you hang out there... well.

                              Writing about gold as an investment, rather than as an expression of ideology and a lifestyle, has for many years gotten me labeled a gold bug in mainstream economics and finance circles. Guilt by association.

                              Of course I like the goldbugs. They are thoughtful economics punk rockers. They are far more creative and imaginative than the buy-and-hold-until-you-lose-all-your-money 401K stock investor, so it should be no suprise that some of the crowd that is attracted to gold is a bit too imaginative, bordering on nuts.

                              My admiration for the intellects of goldbugs aside, my primary interest in gold--and silver and platinum--is in the long-term price. Sorry to be so callous but, hey, I'm a capitalist.

                              I don't think it makes sense to be a "friend of gold." I figure gold cares as little about me, my family and my friends as Walmart stock does. So why get all wrapped up in the mystique?

                              The expression "friends of gold" really means "members of the community of people who have shared beliefs that led them to buy gold." The gold bug belief system is a distinct liability to everyone, and their family and friends. Just ask the poor bastards that hung on to gold from 1980 to 2001. The gold bug belief system is no more constructive than the New Economy nonsense of the 1990s tech stock bubble. The principles that I share with the gold bugs I divorce from the metal itself.

                              I don't see how all of this tortured gold price manipulation analysis helps us figure out the one thing we care about, the thing that matters to us, our families and friends who own gold: When do we sell it?

                              For us, time spent on answering any other question is a waste of time.
                              Last edited by EJ; April 07, 2010, 07:33 PM.

                              Comment


                              • #75
                                Re: Silver price manipulation? If it looks too bad to be true, it probably is - Eric Janszen

                                I don't see how all of this tortured gold price manipulation analysis helps us figure out the one thing we care about, the thing that matters to us, our families and friends who own gold: When do we sell it?

                                For us, time spent on answering any other question is a waste of time.
                                EJ,

                                The issue for me I feel is to own paper gold ( ie GLD , or paper certificates etc) or to pyhsical gold under the bed. I have learnt the latter is the better.

                                Comment

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