The world has never seen such freezing heat

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[we_are_toast]

Re: The world has never seen such freezing heat

More right wing B.S.! This is an opinion piece which goes on to quote right wing Global warming denialist blogs. All kinds of charges, straight from the blogs, all of which are either misleading, taken out of context, or just plain made up.

People who deny the climate is warming at this point are simply incapable of a reasonable thought process and have no understanding of how science works.

There was an error in the data which was quickly caught (that's how science works), and corrected. This is like saying we should reject Ka-Poom theory because EJ misspelled a word, or that the earth is flat because a measurement of the diameter is off by a few meters.

Can't we start a new category for flat earth, UFO, Big foot, global warming denial articles?

http://scienceblogs.com/deltoid/2008...hills.php#more

[c1ue]

Re: The world has never seen such freezing heat

Assumptive close denied.

See your blog, and raise you one:

http://icecap.us/index.php/go/faqs-and-myths

Weather extremes such as droughts, floods, hurricane, tornadoes, and heat waves have become more common.
In his recent movie, former Vice President Al Gore, said: “If you look at the ten hottest years ever measured, they all occurred in the last fourteen years, and the hottest of all was 2005.”
Climate has been stable for a long time but now is getting increasingly extreme.
CO2 is a pollutant.
CO2 is the most important greenhouse gas.
The greenhouse effect is a bad thing.
Modeling the earth’s climate is nearly an exact science.
Summers will be extremely hot and dry.
The sun is a constant source of energy.
Glaciers all over the world are letting because of global warming.
Gore claims that sea level rise could drown the Pacific islands, Florida, major cities the world over, and the 9/11 Memorial in New York City.
It’s getting hot in here… In 2003 the hottest European summer on record caused more than 20,000 deaths. Extreme heat waves also caused more than 1500 deaths in India.
Gore lists ways the United States could reduce emissions of greenhouse gases back to the levels of 1970.
The number of category 4 and 5 storms has greatly increased over the past 35 years, along with ocean temperature. Warmer water in the oceans pumps more energy into tropical storms, making them more intense and potentially more destructive.
Warmer temperatures could also increase the probability of drought. Greater evaporation, particularly during summer and fall, could exacerbate drought conditions and increase the risk of wildfires.
More frequent and more intensive heat waves could result in more heat-related deaths. These conditions could also aggravate local air quality problems, already afflicting more than 80 million Americans. Global warming is expected to increase the potential geographic range and virulence of tropical diseases as well.
Is global warming really impacting polar bears?
Conclusions

http://media.kusi.com/documents/Comm...+Warming02.pdf

Global Warming is a Scam 2
The Global Warming Frenzy 4
Are Carbon Dioxide and Fossil Fuels Responsible for Global Warming? 7
The Force Behind Climate Change on Earth 10
Is Global Warming Melting the Artic Icecap? 13
Carbon Dioxide “Forcing” Not Real 18
2007: Global Warming Swept Plant Earth. . or Did It? 23
There is No Consensus on Global Warming 30

THE ASSOCIATED PRESS CONTINUES The Associated Press Continues the Global Wa rmingHype38

...

[we_are_toast]

Re: The world has never seen such freezing heat

Assumptive close denied.

See your blog, and raise you one:

http://icecap.us/index.php/go/faqs-and-myths



http://media.kusi.com/documents/Comm...+Warming02.pdf

Sorry, links to right wing Global denialist blogs with no data supporting their denials, nothing but wild claims, misquotes, and outright lies are not acceptable. Show me a peer reviewed article in an accepted scientific journal and I'll take a look. Ohh, excuse me! There are none! Because all they have is crazy claims and no defendable data.

Been through this more times than I can count, with the same result;
Deniers use the same type of arguments as UFO nuts, flat earth nuts, Big foot witnesses. Thousands of publications in scientific journals and libraries of data on one side, and blurry pictures and Rush Limbaugh on the other.

[Judas]

Re: The world has never seen such freezing heat

"Vast right wing" conspiracy aside, much of the information I've seen that isn't sensationized or politicized points to climatic instability and a medium-term global cooling. This is a far more dangerous possible condition– I'm less worried about the Northern US, Canada, and Northern Europe getting warmer and stormier than them colder and barren. I'd rather have my vegetable garden than reindeer! :eek:

[skidder]

Re: The world has never seen such freezing heat

I have an open mind on the subject although I tend to lean towards the cooling trend.
My main suspicion comes from a bunch of globalists who have wasted no time trying to implement a global tax system where some farmer is taxed on the amount of flatulence his cows produce and other equally ridiculous schemes.
To me this smacks of another attempt to bring all citizens under one taxing authority and erase sovereignty, similar to the upcoming global poverty plan with the U.N. taxing U.S. citizens. Sorry for being so skeptical but I really have lost all ability to give any gov't the benefit of the doubt.

[tsetsefly]

Re: The world has never seen such freezing heat

I have an open mind on the subject although I tend to lean towards the cooling trend.
My main suspicion comes from a bunch of globalists who have wasted no time trying to implement a global tax system where some farmer is taxed on the amount of flatulence his cows produce and other equally ridiculous schemes.
To me this smacks of another attempt to bring all citizens under one taxing authority and erase sovereignty, similar to the upcoming global poverty plan with the U.N. taxing U.S. citizens. Sorry for being so skeptical but I really have lost all ability to give any gov't the benefit of the doubt.

Im in the same camp. With something where the UN, world government and thousands of special interest are all involved I seem to suspect something is wrong. I just don't believe the hype. As for believing the numbers its like believing government inflation numbers...

[WDCRob]

Re: The world has never seen such freezing heat

Been through this more times than I can count, with the same result; Deniers use the same type of arguments as UFO nuts, flat earth nuts, Big foot witnesses. Thousands of publications in scientific journals and libraries of data on one side, and blurry pictures and Rush Limbaugh on the other.

Well said. They never cite real science, because there is NONE supporting their position beyond, "shit it's cold here today... global warming my ass, heh heh heh."

[don]

Re: The world has never seen such freezing heat

Two comments on Global Warming for the Masses:

Best super simple analogy:

A caged, hungry grizzly bear becomes increasing erratic and unpredictable. It's not a good idea to keep poking it with a stick. Curbing emissions that will affect the climate is simply a good idea. We don't need to have all the answers first.

Second Comment: Science has to find a better yardstick than "the Earth is heating up by 2 degrees. Whoa!" To the masses that is not just meaningless, it's re-assuring. "Two degrees, Holy Moly. Call off the picnic, it's 87, not the forecast 85!"

Boys in white lab coats, come up with something more meaningful for Joe and Jill Sixpack. Pronto.

[Tim T]

Re: The world has never seen such freezing heat

I thought the scientific community was pushing "global climate change" as a replacement to global warming because while the global mean temps are expected to rise it is the regional shifts in climate that could occur that are scary. Some countries agriculture could be completely disrupted if they get just a bit more or a bit less rainfall. Or if minimum nighttime temps drop too low some seeds won't germinate. So you plant something else eventually but there are a lot of people to feed and institutions are slow to change so this could be ugly. Also consider that even if the warming is not man made, in a world with over 6billion people to feed we are now becoming a lot more susceptible to crises due to simply natural variation in climate.

I studied global warming and other environmental science subjects in grad school and I agree there is a lot of hype and overzealous people in the global warming camp. Unfortunately, with every day that passes it does appear that global warming is being used for political reasons. That said, I do think it is a real concern. The powers that be are not smart enough to make this one up. Scientists discovered this threat and now our leaders are using for political purposes.

[politicalfootballfan]

Re: The world has never seen such freezing heat

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[Mn_Mark]

Re: The world has never seen such freezing heat

When I was a teenager in the 1970s the headlines were about how a new ice age was going to begin soon. Glaciers were going to cover North America starting in the next few decades.

Then a decade or two passes, and now it's no longer a new ice age, no, it's dramatic global warming and the ice caps are going to melt and the coastlines be flooded and all kinds of horrible stuff. Oh, and by the way, the way to fix it is with massive new taxes that provide governments and the U.N. with trillions of dollars of revenue and just happen to choke off much of the economic activity that the environmentalist fringe has their knickers in a knot over.

No thanks, I'm not buying it again. Especially not from ideologues who dismiss anyone who questions the need to impose hundreds of trillions of dollars of costs on us because they've bought the environmentalist doom scenarios hook, line, and sinker and now find it beneath themselves to show respect to those who aren't convinced.

I am as convinced that global warming will fade as a concern as I was ten years ago that our economy was heading for a crisis. These environmental catastrophists readily buy into that stuff because it meshes with their contempt for modern society and for the free market and individual liberty. I know because I was one of those people throughout my 20s, joining all the right causes and ranting about Republicans and the environment. And none of the disasters predicted back then came true.

[Tim T]

Re: The world has never seen such freezing heat

Wow, quite a number of personal attacks in your post. Can we please stick to the issue at hand and refrain from the use of red herrings and labels.

By the way, are you a scientist or do you have a technical background, as I only think that it is fair that you qualify your ability to assess this issue on a scientific basis, especially given that you claim that those who do not share your opinion have "no understanding of how science works."



Thank you for your post. Three follow-up questions:

1) do you know who funded the research that created the global computer models predicting universal warming?

2) do you know who funded the research that found the direct causal relationship between man-made activities and warming across the entire globe?

3) have you read The First Global Revolution, a report by the Club of Rome, published in 1991?

I do not know the answers to your questions although I have met many of the scientists that worked on the direct causal relationship. My guess would be they were funded by the National Science Foundation or Department of Energy, or NOAA or NCAR (my list here is US based only because those are the agencies I am familiar with).

I have a feeling you already know the answer and are not really asking me a question, which is fine. I am not sure if you are trying to lead me somewhere with this - if so, you should know I am not going to defend the direct causal relationship because I have my doubts about those computer models as well. And while I would defend that the scientific method is a wonderful thing I would not claim that science is as wonderful as the method. Science like everything involving people is wrapped up in politics.

Consider this, if a cereal company wants people to eat less eggs and more cereal for breakfast they may fund some research hoping to show that eggs are bad for you. They will probably start by finding and funding the researchers that have already found some evidence for this. Is this how science should be done? No but it may happen this way to often. Does this mean that the science was wrong and eggs are actually good for you? Not necessarily. Unfortunately, I think only the scientists and/or people who really dig deep into the material can tell the hype from reality.

I have not read the book you mentioned but I may, sounds interesting.

[xtronics]

Re: The world has never seen such freezing heat

The best global data comes from satellites (nothing else measures the whole earth and is not confounded with local effects).

The good investors here should be able to read graphs like this one:

http://xtronics.com/reference/christ...sor/global.png

Where is the hockey stick?

Now, this graph dose not disprove that CO2 causes warming, but it does show that the computer simulations have major problems and should not be taken seriously. I think we can say that the amount of warming is still much less than the normal noise.

BTW - there is an amazing parallel in the investment world. The SEC swallowed a bunch of BS based on computer models. This BS created the confidence in the funny loan paper that helped bring the meltdown. Having worked with computer models (in electronics) I can tell you it is very easy to fool one's self - models must always be tested with the real world.

[DaveBrown42]

Re: The world has never seen such freezing heat

I was going to post here what I believe are the inarguable facts about global warming. Then I realized there's no point in discussing it here.

The day I go to itulip for advice on global warming will be the day I go to church for advice about investments.

Let's all stick to what we're here for, eh?

(EDIT: I apologize if my attitude is a bit cynical, but I've seen this discussion play out on many other forums. Lots of people chime in to say very intelligent things on both sides of the debate, and everyone generally leaves unconvinced of the opposing side's argument. Just doesn't seem like a productive use of time.)