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Radical Islamists No Different Than Inquistion?

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  • Radical Islamists No Different Than Inquistion?

    The Death Pangs of Dying Religion


    Whilst especially the right wing mainstream media may be focused on the threat Islam poses to the West, the reality is the exact opposite as I have countless times written of over the years in that the likes of ISIS / Islamic State represent the death pangs of a Dying religion rather than being a threat to the West. Just as some 500 years ago Christianity literally went medieval on all those whose beliefs contradicted Christian doctrine, committing many to imprisonment and many more to death, including prominent scientists such as Galileo, all because they would make statements such as that the Earth is not Flat or not at the centre of the universe. And so it is for Islamic State and others such as the regime in Saudi Arabia, who are Islam's versions of the Spanish Inquisition, desperately attempting to reinforce a crumbling Islamic view of reality that is fast disintegrating in the face of a flood of enlightenment that muslims tend to become exposed to as they educate themselves.


    The inconvenient truth is that most muslims in the West are NOT practicing muslims, instead are culturally muslims i.e. as most Christians in the West are not practicing Christians as evidenced by the fact if Jesus Christ ever was to return during December his first words would likely be 'WTF?' when he sees the Christmas trees, lights, partying and month long shopping sales frenzy in the cathedrals of consumerism, all in his name. Similarly Islam, at least in the West for most muslims has become a religion of just going through the motions of rituals, customs and celebrations.


    So in reality 60% of western muslims are NOT practicing muslims with even a good 1/5th of muslims in muslim countries tending only to go through the motions of being muslim i.e. that in reality, deep down don't really believe anymore but just go through the motions for keeping up appearances in a case of 'the emperor has no clothes'. And the same holds true for all major religions, Judaism, Christianity, Hinduism etc, all to varying degrees in the violent death pangs of dying religions.


    For instance even the most diehard Islamist's, the Saudi's are routinely exposed as being hypocrites, drinking and partying in secret whilst publically prancing around in white robes, preaching to the ignorant, uneducated masses in other third world muslim nations to do this that and the other in the name of islam which they don't tend to practice themselves. And it is that which the likes of Islamic State are a reaction to i.e. the death pangs of a Dying religion, desperately trying to reinforce ideology over reality Spanish Inquisition style existing in voids such as Syria.


    I have covered this topic many times in over the years, such as following the January 2015 Charlie Hebdo attack -
    13th Jan 2015 - Islamic World Transition From the 'Age of Religion' to the 'Age of Reason'


    Age of Reason World Map 2015


    The following map illustrates the current state of the evolution of humanity from the 'Age of Religion' to the 'Age of Reason' as peoples and nations attempt to literally pull themselves out of the iron grip of ancient superstitions towards ENLIGHTENMENT where humanity really does start to understand the true nature of the universe, utilisation of which triggers exponential leaps in development as we have seen in China that has done in 30 years what took the West 300 years to achieve.



    The key point that stands out from the world map is that the most religious countries also tend to be the poorest. However, the automatic western response of sending aid to poor countries just does not work for the fundamental reason that many aspects of civil society are skewed towards of veneration a deity such as in religious schools that continuously draws resources away from education based on the 'Age of Reason'.


    Where the Islamic world is concerned is primed for a reformation that the West should encourage as a matter of the utmost priority as the means of bringing about Armageddon will only become easier to obtain with each passing year which is why given the current trends I don't see the middle east region surviving beyond 2030, unless the Age of Reason starts to prevail in Islamic nations whilst also continuing its trend in all nations.


    So instead of the mainstream media's obsession with the 'class of civilisations' nonsense or fearing Islamification instead it is Islam that fears the West for what it represents - ENLIGHTENMENT, and it is this that is resulting in schools being blown up across Afghanistan and Pakistan, hundreds of school girls being kidnapped in Nigeria. Islam, Muslims, even Christians, Jews and Hindus FEAR the truth of what Western Secular Education reveals. Whilst western civilisation has over 400 years painfully detached itself from the Christian death cult, other death cults across the middle east still crave the end of the world so that they may ascend into paradise for eternity for the Islamic world is literally living on borrowed time as Islamic nations are not just sinking but imploding into chaos and anarchy promoting huge waves of migration to Europe and North America.


    The Islamic Reformation for most of the worlds muslims could happen far more quickly than the West's 400+ year long march towards secularism that firmly put the Christian death cult in its box. An Islamic Reformation within the next 30 years would result in a world where today's slogans of Islamification and Fundamentalism just would no longer be relevant, for Islam or Judaism or the many other 'religions' would not have to go through the painful process of discovery from Galileo to Darwin to Einstein to Planck to Watson and Crick, for the knowledge already exists! It would be totally unnecessary for Islam to be blind as the first century of the Christian Reformation was that was forced to open its eyes over several centuries.


    The bottom line is that what we are witnessing with Islamic fundamentalism are violent reactions to the beginnings of the Islamic Reformation where despite being unimaginable today, the Islamic world could within a few short decades come to mirror western societies in terms of economy, secularism, freedom and democracy. The best thing that the West can do is to FOSTER the Islamic Reformation through SECULAR EDUCATION INITIATIVES. The West's universities are breeding grounds for enlightenment and western governments should stop supporting dictatorships such as that in Egypt or those states that ferment religious ideologies such as Israel and Saudi Arabia which through their actions are acting as a Resistor to the Islamic Reformation.


    Those that think that the Islamic world (muslims) cannot change need to remember that all it can take is just one man to change, to open his mind to enlightenment and soon the rest will follow, for that is how Islam started with ONE MAN!

    http://www.marketoracle.co.uk/Article53034.html Nadeem Walayat

  • #2
    Re: Radical Islamists No Different Than Inquistion?

    Are fascism and communism really radical religions too? The brutality these doctrines utilized resulted in millions of deaths and injuries.

    Socialism and free market economies are really the secular world.

    Comment


    • #3
      Re: Radical Islamists No Different Than Inquistion?

      Originally posted by vt View Post
      Are fascism and communism really radical religions too? The brutality these doctrines utilized resulted in millions of deaths and injuries.

      Socialism and free market economies are really the secular world.
      No. Neither are cancer or automobile accidents.

      Comment


      • #4
        Re: Radical Islamists No Different Than Inquistion?

        While we've seen the decline of organised religion(as well as other things like organised labour) in the west, is that necessarily the case globally?

        While the author makes a case for a whole lot of non practicing "paper Muslims", there's no mention of the situation in Turkey.

        Turkey is arguably the most successful majority Muslim country in the world possessing a stable environment, a substantial and diversified economy not reliant on natural resources, and a powerful military.

        Yet anyone paying close attention to Turkey will easily notice that it seems to be slipping away from secularism.

        It's an anomaly that seems to run contrary to the popular belief that increasing standards of living and liberalism will always lead to secularism.

        ---------

        I'll restate my position and state that I think one of the most dangerous examples of naive hubris that exists amongst many liberal progressives is the belief that humanity is moving towards utopic enlightenment at the same velocity as technological change.

        We've seen technological revolution accelerate at a phenomenal rate in the last 50 year, while humanity is still stuck living in a cultural/phychological cave.

        The iPhone 8 will not enlighten modern Cro Magnon man nor change his primal, feral, tribal, violent constitution.

        Our technology is reaching for the stars at escape velocity, but our psychology is stuck in the cave barely registering on the pedometer.

        Meanwhile, secular schools of higher learning in the U.S. are having a supportive(conflict sells) media spotlight placed on them for increasingly radical tribal and discriminatory social justice movements.

        I call BS.

        I don't think we are as enlightened as some "bubble dwellers" seem to think we are.

        A bit like the very rude awakening the Iranian middle class and intelligentsia had a few years ago during Iran's protests.

        Comment


        • #5
          Re: Radical Islamists No Different Than Inquistion?

          Well one important difference. Christianity is a horrible warlord's religion. The Catholic policy to keep scriptures away from the lay people was wise. Literate Christians are often apt to find it to be a pacifist religion without the special guidance of a violent interpretation . Basically you need a very specific school of interpretation. This is why Christian violence is most often at the state sponsored level. Ya just don't have random out breaks of violent interpretation coming from inspired readers. So in other word Christians couldn't read during the Crusades.

          With Islam it is quite the opposite. Not only does it have a very weak ecclesiastical authority to enforce interpretation, violent ones are rather easy to come by.

          A poem like

          Mama's love cuts like a knife to the heart.
          think warmly in the hearth

          Can be tortured into some sort of violent interpretation.

          the Quran however is very much like

          stab mama in the heart
          when she lose faith, the better part


          Again, one may tame this with an interpretation. It is however much more difficult to do. And with the lack of central authority inherent in Islam, it is much more prone for outbreaks.

          Its not a peaceful or nor violent region because it is subject still to interpretation(more so than the other faiths like Judaism which can be very didactic ). However Islam is not very didactic, and is thus a source of unstable and dangerous interpretations. Though again, it is possible to press anything into an ideology of violence or into peace. I just don't like my chances as much with Islam.

          Comment


          • #6
            Re: Radical Islamists No Different Than Inquistion?

            Lake, do you believe humanity can, by interfering with processes that would otherwise be natural, produce an outcome which is an improvement over the aforementioned natural one?

            Comment


            • #7
              Re: Radical Islamists No Different Than Inquistion?

              Originally posted by vt View Post
              Are fascism and communism really radical religions too? The brutality these doctrines utilized resulted in millions of deaths and injuries.

              Socialism and free market economies are really the secular world.

              Which one?
              The Communists disdain to conceal their views and aims. They openly declare that their ends can be attained only by the forcible overthrow of all existing social conditions. Let the ruling classes tremble at a Communistic revolution. The proletarians have nothing to lose but their chains. They have a world to win.

              Manifesto of the Communist Party - Marx and Ingles.

              This one yes and it seems pretty clear. However again, an apologist can always manipulate the meanings of important words like force. Yet without any guidance it is pretty easy to see that many will interpret this as picking up a rifle. It is a dangerous ideology again. Now some Imam of Marxism can suggest that force means social force or some such, either for lying to lay in wait or in sincerity?

              Again why would I want to import millions of peaceful Marxists hoping that their interpretation holds.

              Comment


              • #8
                Re: Radical Islamists No Different Than Inquistion?

                Originally posted by Woodsman View Post
                Lake, do you believe humanity can, by interfering with processes that would otherwise be natural, produce an outcome which is an improvement over the aforementioned natural one?
                Honestly, I don't know.

                I guess it depends on if you catch me on a good day or a bad one.

                On a good day, I'd say the potential is there in terms of someday truly understanding the human genome and manipulating it via gene therapy as well as other opportunities in terms of human longevity, accumulation of wisdom, and the software side of human behaviour.

                i have some oblique acquaintances that represent one of the most respected researchers in terms of innovation/creativity.

                Exciting stuff well well beyond my ability to fully understand beyond the desire to help spread a little of it like a virus amongst my candidates.

                Frustratingly, what we call innovation/creativity is often closely correlated with what we also call mental illness.

                Genetic serendipitous anomalies? Should we burn them as witches? Honor them as gods? Or try to replicate nature's more perfect imperfections?

                Personally, I tend to go with fear.

                Fear that the day cold fusion, unlimited power is unlocked(human enlightenment) it will be weaponised by lunchtime the next day(cave man tribal psychology).

                -----

                I know there's well funded research being conducted on both physical/mental performance enhancement.

                I'm not convinced artificial improvements will work at the macro level. Micro level individual physical/mental performance enhancement I can definitely see.

                But I guess in short, I'm not confident there will be a pill that can remove primal/feral/violent/selfish/asshole behaviour without it being akin to Soma in Brave New World or Pharm in THX1138.

                Too much malignancy exists in the world to NOT interfere with the positive potential.

                organized religion to influence
                written propaganda to influence
                movie/TV propaganda to influence
                internet propaganda to influence
                genetic engineering/pharm/human behaviour modification to influence

                To me, it seems like the same old, same old......just increasingly sophisticated, successful, and mass customised/individualised.

                Comment


                • #9
                  Re: Radical Islamists No Different Than Inquistion?

                  Originally posted by gwynedd1 View Post
                  Well one important difference. Christianity is a horrible warlord's religion. The Catholic policy to keep scriptures away from the lay people was wise. Literate Christians are often apt to find it to be a pacifist religion without the special guidance of a violent interpretation . Basically you need a very specific school of interpretation.
                  That's quite an interesting assertion. Tell me more about the "very specific school of interpretation" needed to take away a violent interpretation of an otherwise peaceful verse such as:

                  20 But if this thing be true, and the tokens of virginity be not found for the damsel:
                  21 Then they shall bring out the damsel to the door of her father's house, and the men of her city shall stone her with stones that she die: because she hath wrought folly in Israel, to play the whore in her father's house: so shalt thou put evil away from among you.

                  The following 30 violent exhortations are drawn from Jewish, Christian and Muslim scriptures. The generic word "God" is used for all deity names, and names of places or people have been replaced with generic terms. How well do you know your Torah, Bible or Quran and Hadith? Can you tell which is which? Give it a try and then check the key at the bottom.

                  1. Anyone arrogant enough to reject the verdict of the [holy man] who represents God must be put to death. Such evil must be purged.
                  2. I decided to order a man to lead the prayer and then take a flame to burn all those, who had not left their houses for the prayer, burning them alive inside their homes.
                  3. I will fill your mountains with the dead. Your hills, your valleys, and your streams will be filled with people slaughtered by the sword. I will make you desolate forever. Your cities will never be rebuilt. Then you will know that I am God.
                  4. Fight them until there is no more [disbelief or worshipping of other gods] and worship is for God alone.
                  5. Think not that I am come to send peace on earth: I came not to send peace, but a sword. For I am come to set a man at variance against his father, and the daughter against her mother, and the daughter in law against her mother-in-law. And a man's foes shall be they of his own household.
                  6. Whoso fighteth in the way of God, be he slain or be he victorious, on him We shall bestow a vast reward.
                  7. Make ready to slaughter [the infidel’s] sons for the guilt of their fathers; Lest they rise and posses the earth, and fill the breadth of the world with tyrants.

                  ...



                  http://www.alternet.org/30-most-viol...orah-and-quran

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Re: Radical Islamists No Different Than Inquistion?

                    Originally posted by DSpencer View Post
                    That's quite an interesting assertion. Tell me more about the "very specific school of interpretation" needed to take away a violent interpretation of an otherwise peaceful verse such as:

                    20 But if this thing be true, and the tokens of virginity be not found for the damsel:
                    21 Then they shall bring out the damsel to the door of her father's house, and the men of her city shall stone her with stones that she die: because she hath wrought folly in Israel, to play the whore in her father's house: so shalt thou put evil away from among you.

                    You simply have poor understanding of the subject matter. Not sure why you see fit to have such a cocky, and quite frankly arrogant attitude. We can't have a discussion without getting so cutsie about it?

                    Yes that would be from Judaism and of course that is where you get your quote. Christianity considers it obsolete. Why hardly matters as a measure of the current threat.

                    We could muse over the changing contexts of society,...I mean in a small community, adultery is a rather serious offence. It can destabilize small communities, disastrous for their basic subsistence. Even now its difficult to keep angry victims of adultly from revenge. In a communities of a few hundred, I can see it as being very destructive and dangerous. In large modern police states, the entire clan is not in jeopardy of civil war...

                    Again we could even debate and muse over the above . However that's not the point. What might have been , isn't anymore. Christianity is more or less what is called the New Testament, that was only based on what preceded it. It clearly considers that obsolete where it would contradict.
                    John 8

                    2 Now early[a] in the morning He came again into the temple, and all the people came to Him; and He sat down and taught them. 3 Then the scribes and Pharisees brought to Him a woman caught in adultery. And when they had set her in the midst, 4 they said to Him, “Teacher, this woman was caught[b] in adultery, in the very act. 5 Now Moses, in the law, commanded[c] us that such should be stoned.[d] But what do You say?”[e] 6 This they said, testing Him, that they might have something of which to accuse Him. But Jesus stooped down and wrote on the ground with His finger, as though He did not hear.[f]

                    7 So when they continued asking Him, He raised Himself up[g] and said to them, “He who is without sin among you, let him throw a stone at her first.” 8 And again He stooped down and wrote on the ground. 9 Then those who heard it, being convicted by their conscience,[h] went out one by one, beginning with the oldest even to the last. And Jesus was left alone, and the woman standing in the midst. 10 When Jesus had raised Himself up and saw no one but the woman, He said to her,[i] “Woman, where are those accusers of yours?[j] Has no one condemned you?”


                    That is pretty much what you will find in the New Testament. Any violence is more or less up to God.

                    So again, by comparison ,one must specifically create a violent interpretation of Christianity , pretty much against the basic text.

                    Forgive how many time up to 7 X 7 was aked? Christ said 7 X 70. It just isn't an inherently violent system of beliefs.

                    Joshua and Muhammad were both conquering war lords. So we see much more blood shed. Jesus was a political rebellion against the religious authorities in Judea. He is more like Socrates and Ghandi.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Re: Radical Islamists No Different Than Inquistion?

                      Originally posted by gwynedd1 View Post
                      You simply have poor understanding of the subject matter. Not sure why you see fit to have such a cocky, and quite frankly arrogant attitude. We can't have a discussion without getting so cutsie about it?
                      Apologies for the cute tone. I don't see anything I said as being cockier or more arrogant than you telling me that I "simply have poor understanding of the subject matter". We disagree. I believe you are wrong and I am right and vice versa.

                      Yes that would be from Judaism and of course that is where you get your quote. Christianity considers it obsolete. Why hardly matters as a measure of the current threat.
                      Saying it's "from Judaism" is pretending that it's not part of nearly every Christian bible in existence. It's considered by most Christians to be the Word of God. You claim that some kind of special interpretation is needed to make it violent, when clearly that is not true. If you are part of some kind of New Testament Only sect of Christianity, then yes, your scripture is probably much less violent. That is not the majority of Christians.

                      Christianity is more or less what is called the New Testament, that was only based on what preceded it. It clearly considers that obsolete where it would contradict
                      .

                      Matthew 5:17 Do not think that I have come to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I have not come to abolish them but to fulfill them.

                      5:18 I tell you the truth, until heaven and earth disappear, not the smallest letter, not the least stroke of a pen, will by any means disappear from the Law until everything is accomplished.

                      Luke 16:17 But it is easier for heaven and earth to disappear than for one dot of the Law to become void.

                      2 Timothy 3:16 All Scripture is God-breathed and is useful for teaching, rebuking, correcting and training in righteousness,


                      I understand that Christians want to distance themselves from the outrageous parts of the Old Testament. It's tough to swallow that God told people to perform the impossible task of determining virginity through physical inspection and murder women if they don't like what they see. But Jesus claims that he is the same God. So they are stuck.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Re: Radical Islamists No Different Than Inquistion?

                        While we're going all high brow on the deeper religious stuff, has anyone noticed the date that is fast approaching?

                        I think it's December 8th 2015 that represents the 50th anniversary of the close of Vatican II.

                        The Catholic church went thru an overdue reformation, it would be nice to see an Islamic equivalent, starting with Sunni, by Sunni.

                        I just don't see it happening though.

                        ----------

                        In terms of the legitimate threat posed by militant Islam compared to expansionist communism one thing to consider is that communism was(and remains) a rather historically, culturally, economically, and politically shallow belief system.

                        Communism/Marxism is like a weed or vine system in comparison to an Islamic oak grove in terms of persistence.

                        And again, I don't believe all Muslims are out to get me, just like I didn't believe all communists were out to get me either.

                        They respectively spent considerable time out to get each other, both then and now.

                        But some of them are out to get us.

                        I would put an Islamic reformation in the category of improved lifestyle and nutrition choices on the continuum if you tried to use a biological system like a human body to represent a society or humanity.

                        The other end of the spectrum from invasive surgery(kinetic operations) for cutting out malignant tumours("bad people").

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Re: Radical Islamists No Different Than Inquistion?

                          Originally posted by lakedaemonian View Post
                          While we're going all high brow on the deeper religious stuff, has anyone noticed the date that is fast approaching?

                          I think it's December 8th 2015 that represents the 50th anniversary of the close of Vatican II.

                          The Catholic church went thru an overdue reformation, it would be nice to see an Islamic equivalent, starting with Sunni, by Sunni.

                          I just don't see it happening though.

                          ----------
                          Would changing Islam be effective in reducing violence? Is religion the cause of violence or simply a convenient pretense? I suppose it can be some of each.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Re: Radical Islamists No Different Than Inquistion?

                            Originally posted by DSpencer View Post
                            Would changing Islam be effective in reducing violence? Is religion the cause of violence or simply a convenient pretense? I suppose it can be some of each.
                            Have you ever read the Koran? There's a lot of violent "thou shalts" in it to be exacted on non-Muslims. When a significant percentage of Muslims believe in a literal interpretation of the Koran, non-Muslims will have problems. IMO that's true for all the Abrahamic religions, but to a lesser extent. Most Christians and Jews today practice selective adherance to their "Word of God," leaving out the bloodiest parts.

                            Be kinder than necessary because everyone you meet is fighting some kind of battle.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Re: Radical Islamists No Different Than Inquistion?

                              Originally posted by shiny! View Post
                              Have you ever read the Koran? There's a lot of violent "thou shalts" in it to be exacted on non-Muslims. When a significant percentage of Muslims believe in a literal interpretation of the Koran, non-Muslims will have problems. IMO that's true for all the Abrahamic religions, but to a lesser extent. Most Christians and Jews today practice selective adherance to their "Word of God," leaving out the bloodiest parts.
                              I don't know of a religion that doesn't require cognitive dissonance. I'm confident that any "thou shalts" can be explained away or forgotten if the will exists to do so just like in Christianity and Judaism. I'm just don't know if the leaders of Islam changed the rules that its followers would suddenly become less violent towards those they hate.

                              Comment

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