China ethnic riots news capture (Warning: Graphic)

[touchring]

Re: China ethnic riots news capture (Warning: Graphic)

So in china (I am asuming oppressed minorities are poor since they must be poor if they are oppressed) the oppressed minorities get:

1) Section 8 housing vouchers (free rent)
2) Food Stamps
3) Free Healthcare
4) Free education
5) Affirmative action programs
6) Free childcare
7) Representation in local government
8) Representation in federal government

I can go on and on. You can not compare the poor or the treatment of minorities in the 21st century in the US and Europe to the poor in the developing and third world. Totally different ball park. With all the social saftey nets and affirmative action regulations practiced on every level of government minorities in the US at least (I cannot speak for the EU) are given every opportunity succeed. And I point to the President ,the Governor of New York, The Governor of Louisiana and the Mayor of Los Angeles to prove it. I can list a whole range of high profile minorities in every aspect of US industry and Government. LA just shut down a high way and the MSM just gave 24/7 news coverage to the death of a beloved star who happens to be a minority. Ethnic clashes, civil war and rebellions have been going on in China for centuries. The Han are in control now and will try and maintain that at all cost. Otherwise they can look back at their history and see what happens when the oppressive majority is overthrown.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_China

In my view there's no difference. If we are to talk about the US, North America belonged to the Indians for a longer time than the Turks had occupied the Xinjiang territory they are now claiming. As for modern time, there's not much of native Americans left today to even think about getting back control of the motherland.

As for benefits (1) to (8), i think the majority of chinese don't get them, except for maybe corrupt officials and their kins.

Xinjiang was conquered by the Qing Dynasty, a Manchurian government and a stock that has already considered itself part of Han.

And in case the rest do not understand, Han is not a real ethnic group (unless European is an ethnic group), but rather a group of people from different ethnic origins and spoken language that have decided to identify themselves under a single identity, written language and adopting Han surnames.

The Han people in the northern part of China today are a mix of Qiang, Mongolians, Huns, Xianbei, and Manchurian (only recently assimulated).

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Qiang_people
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Change_...s_to_Han_names
http://www.asiawind.com/pub/forum/fh.../msg00016.html

The Han people in the southern half of China are even more diverse, probably made up of hundreds of different ethnic groups that either joined or were conquered by North China during the time of Christ. Most of them still retain their original ethnic tongue, which explains the hundreds of different mutually intelligible spoken languages in that region.

Genetically, i believe - my own assumption based on rational thinking) that some Northern Han Chinese with Nomadic ancestry have more in common with the XinjiangTurks than they have with Southern Han Chinese.

[skyson]

Re: China ethnic riots news capture (Warning: Graphic)

My point is that by using "Communism" as a lable, the western media intentionally or unintentionally misleads the audience. While addressing individual politicians by party line is fine, it is inappropriate to addressing a legitimate government by its ideology. It almost has the effect of putting a judgement of "friends" or "foes" during reporting. "Chinese Government" should be used, and it is regconized by the United Nations as the only legitimate government representing the country of China.

As I see it, there is a massive misreporting in the western media going on regarding issues of china. The current China is only "communism" by name. It is more capitalism than any of the western countries. Yes, it is ruled by one party(Japan is essentially a one-party ruling government too). But china has never been ruled by other form of political structure in its entire history. I guess for a multi-party system to take root, we must be patient. By taking a ideological stand, you will never get anywhere near the truth of china issues. For example, when Master_Shake said:"ChiCom has no business in Tibet", I believe it came from the popular misconception spread by the western media, because when they do their report on Tibet they always only state the line of "in 1950, the communist troop occupied Tibet". I have never heard of them mentioning any history facts about Tibet befor 1950. In reality, Chinese government has been ruling Tibet since early 17th century, on and off by different ruling parties.

Some interesting facts: http://vol-news.com/tibet%20history/...efore_1950.php.

touchring:

HongKong and Macau are special administration regions. Not equal entities of chinese central government.

Here is a news update by a Hong Kong TV station:
1. Start: Han ethnic people taking to the street protesting the riot, carrying various weapons. The sang the national athem and chanted:"revenge, revenge".
2. 01:28: a lady says: we need to protect our interest, protect our home. we cannot always be the targets of aggression by them. they do this everyday.(according to some Han bloggers out there, apparently, due to the lax and unfair law enforcement against the Ughurs, Hans in XinJiang were beaten up on a daily basis while the police are not doing anything)
3. 02:13: conflicts broke out between two groups of Ughur and Han. Military police shot towards the sky for warning.
4. 03:00: Uighurs protesting for the release of their family members who were arrested during the riot.
5: 05:09: Mayor of Urumqi(an Ughur) accusing "outside interest groups" for planning and inciting the riot.
6. 06:00-07:23: tourists from HongKong and Taiwan have to change part of their travelling plan, but they says still feel safe to go around.
7. 07:30-08:40: other parts of XinJiang province are bracing for more riots.
8. 08:40-end: Rebiya Kadeer and Chinese government are blaming each other. Funny though, Kadeer was standing beside the American flag at the conference. I am sure the 1.3 billion chinese sit well with that image. This bring up the image in my mind that the Americans were famously asking the innocent question of:"why the world hate us?"

I think at this point, decisive action should be taken by the authority to stop the fight between ethnic groups. Martial law is in order, and active criminals should be arrested and execute at spot, like what the US authority did during riots after Katrina.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MbGnn...layer_embedded

sigh: i copied and pasted the embed code, but does not work. sorry, only link.



Han people taking to the street.

[skyson]

Re: China ethnic riots news capture (Warning: Graphic)

[skyson]

Re: China ethnic riots news capture (Warning: Graphic)

Now i get it. When posting video, do not use Preview function. Sorry guys, not trying to spam...

[skyson]

Re: China ethnic riots news capture (Warning: Graphic)

the window of opportunity to take over a land mass by ethnic cleansing closed in the late 1800s. eventually the chicoms will have to leave tibet.

why? you mean by then the colonist had done their job...?:eek::eek:

the official view of the west regarding Tibet was only changed after 1950:
http://vol-news.com/tibet%20history/...efore_1950.php

[Master Shake]

Re: China ethnic riots news capture (Warning: Graphic)

By the same token, none of the Americans(white, black, or yellow, other than the Indians) has any business in North America. If the chinese government had adopted the same policy as the white colonist did, namely ethnic cleansing, the Tibetan issue is no more.

Fantasize about Tibet and Dalai? See this:

Sorry, but that ship (colonialism/"ethnic cleansing") sailed long before the ChiComs invaded Tibet. What are you? Mr. ChiCom apologist?

The Dalai Lama is not part of my fantasy life. There are better things to fantasize about.

http://imstars.aufeminin.com/stars/f...040406-200.jpg

[radon]

Re: China ethnic riots news capture (Warning: Graphic)

Thanks for the clarification on the Han. But since you keep bringing up the native indian genocide the US did make reparations by giving land not under governmental jurisdiction and the native americans eventually built these:

[ATTACH]1797[/ATTACH]

I don't think they are interested in gaining control of the Motherland as they have their own land.

If you're talking about reservations, you don't have to give them much after you kill most of them. Just get the army to confine what is left to a crappy stretch with no real use until more of them starve or die of disease. Then your problem is solved. I guess you need to toss the survivors a couple acres somewhere to quiet those uneasy feelings of guilt, but don't feel bad it was your manifest destiny.

In 50 years or so natives became foreigners in their own land. "interest" has nothing to do with it. Seriously, if the Chinese didn't have this cultural superiority complex they could learn a lot from us, and wouldn't have these problems with Tibet an the like.

As it stands today in many places the Chinese are in a foreign land and they don't speak the language. Furthermore it seems that they are making no attempt to assimilate themselves into local society or respect local customs. Yet they don't understand why their hosts are hostile.

[skyson]

Re: China ethnic riots news capture (Warning: Graphic)

Sorry, but that ship (colonialism/"ethnic cleansing") sailed long before the ChiComs invaded Tibet. What are you? Mr. ChiCom apologist?

The Dalai Lama is not part of my fantasy life. There are better things to fantasize about.

http://imstars.aufeminin.com/stars/fan/emmanuelle-beart/emmanuelle-beart-20040406-200.jpg

you say: of course, that horrible crime was done by my great great great grandfathers. i live off on this "PRIZE", but i am innocent.

how wonderful.

i hope you have figured out from my various posts what i am trying to tell is that by taking a idealogical stand regarding issues of china, you will not get to the understanding of the truth of anything in china.

labeling anyone that has a different view from a western point of view then you get the name of "ChiCom apologist". i am a chinese living abroad, and can tell you the fact that majority of chinese support the current government, and if there is an election held at this moment, the communist will win. people in the west all think people in other part of the world regard the west the beacon of democracy and freedom, the ultimate destiny of prosperity and happiness. that is why the western people expect the iraqis to welcome their troops with open arms, they can not accept the fact the conservatives got elected in the iranian election, and they hope the chinese poor will rise up and embrace the western standard if enough riots and civil unrests introduced into the chinese society.

WRONG, WRONG, WRONG. if you cannot appreciate the reality that most of the so-call third world people(i guess that really depends on the timelime of history. for the west are only superior in the past 100 years of the 5000 years history) have very different view of history and understanding of world events, then it is fine, for this is a typical mindset of a typical westerner.

i am not here to spread my idealogy, and not to defend the "ChiCom". i am here to present you what an average chinese think in various matters involving china.

so take it or ignore it, at your own risk.

again, the "ChiCom" did not invade Tibet. See previous post!!!

[radon]

Re: China ethnic riots news capture (Warning: Graphic)

i hope you have figured out from my various posts what i am trying to tell is that by taking a idealogical stand regarding issues of china, you will not get to the understanding of the truth of anything in china.

China's government is all about ideology. They have demonstrated that repeatedly.

labeling anyone that has a different view from a western point of view then you get the name of "ChiCom apologist". i am a chinese living abroad, and can tell you the fact that majority of chinese support the current government, and if there is an election held at this moment, the communist will win.

Perhaps that is because dissent is not tolerated.

people in the west all think people in other part of the world regard the west the beacon of democracy and freedom, the ultimate destiny of prosperity and happiness. that is why the western people expect the iraqis to welcome their troops with open arms, they can not accept the fact the conservatives got elected in the iranian election, and they hope the chinese poor will rise up and embrace the western standard if enough riots and civil unrests introduced into the chinese society.

You're confusing the view of a few hawks in a government that has transitioned out of power with a western view in general. Perhaps this is typical in a country where the government writes the textbooks and controls the media, but not here - not yet at least.

WRONG, WRONG, WRONG. if you cannot appreciate the reality that most of the so-call third world people(i guess that really depends on the timelime of history. for the west are only superior in the past 100 years of the 5000 years history) have very different view of history and understanding of world events, then it is fine, for this is a typical mindset of a typical westerner.

Yes, we all know the Chinese are superior and have nothing to learn from anyone else.

i am not here to spread my idealogy, and not to defend the "ChiCom". i am here to present you what an average chinese think in various matters involving china.

You just did.

so take it or ignore it, at your own risk.

What risk would that be? You sound like the type of person is payed to AstroTurf boards with the party line. I would say that china needs a cultural revolution, but it didn't really help them last time.

[skyson]

Re: China ethnic riots news capture (Warning: Graphic)

China's government is all about ideology. They have demonstrated that repeatedly.



Perhaps that is because dissent is not tolerated.



You're confusing the view of a few hawks in a government that has transitioned out of power with a western view in general. Perhaps this is typical in a country where the government writes the textbooks and controls the media, but not here - not yet at least.



Yes, we all know the Chinese are superior and have nothing to learn from anyone else.



You just did.



What risk would that be? You sound like the type of person is payed to AstroTurf boards with the party line. I would say that china needs a cultural revolution, but it didn't really help them last time.

SIGH!!!...

another typical reaction from a typical westerner.:rolleyes:

please see this thread, and pay attention to "allenjs" posts and the reaction to them.
http://www.itulip.com/forums/showthr...?t=8962&page=2

see the pattern? --- you are saying the same thing as the communist, so you must be a communist. Or you are with us, or against us.

Wow, amazing intellectual high thinking.

FORGET IT. I GIVE UP!

[radon]

Re: China ethnic riots news capture (Warning: Graphic)

SIGH!!!...

another typical reaction from a typical westerner.:rolleyes:

please see this thread, and pay attention to "allenjs" posts and the reaction to them.
http://www.itulip.com/forums/showthr...?t=8962&page=2

see the pattern? --- you are saying the same thing as the communist, so you must be a communist. Or you are with us, or against us.

Wow, amazing intellectual high thinking.

FORGET IT. I GIVE UP!

But you are saying the same thing as the communists. I would argue that if you were in china you would be able to say little else. You seem surprised at my amused skepticism that this is somehow an independent thought.

I also noticed that you did nothing to refute my argument and attacked me instead. Perhaps you are not used to someone being able to take a different side.

[skyson]

Re: China ethnic riots news capture (Warning: Graphic)

But you are saying the same thing as the communists. I would argue that if you were in china you would be able to say little else. You seem surprised at my amused skepticism that this is somehow an independent thought.

I also noticed that you did nothing to refute my argument and attacked me instead. Perhaps you are not used to someone being able to take a different side.

i have no intention of causing disturbance here, really. i did not feel the need to reply to you, but i will try per your request:

China's government is all about ideology. They have demonstrated that repeatedly.

why is china the number one trade partner with US again? is US the number one evil capitalist country, in the eyes of the communists?

why is china the number one trade partner of Japan? is Japan the number two capitalist market?

why is china the number two trade partner of europe? is europe the father of capitalism?

so far, have they demonstrated repeatedly that they are communist in name, but realist in practice?

Perhaps that is because dissent is not tolerated.

could it be that nationalism is the mainstream in china at this time? could it be that majority of chinese do not like the way the west had treated them in the past? could it be that in the last 10 years or so, the "coalition of willing" have demonstrated their hypocrisy of "spreading democracy" by invading iraq and killing iraqis, which cause them to rethink the motive of western politicians advocating "democracy" in developing world? could it be that they learned the lesson from Russia that after the USSR collapse and they fully adopted the western system and standard, then found their wealth fleeced by the west and their national security seriously compromised by the ever expanding NATO, and figured that the west would not stop just at "democratizing Russia" and instead until their country disintegrated, not ever being a threat to the western interest?

You're confusing the view of a few hawks in a government that has transitioned out of power with a western view in general. Perhaps this is typical in a country where the government writes the textbooks and controls the media, but not here - not yet at least.

in a so-call democracy society, is it true that the government represents the interest of the majority? if so, then their politicians or government officials' action is the reflection of the people. if not, then why is better for you to have a government that only in-name is democratic?

Yes, we all know the Chinese are superior and have nothing to learn from anyone else.

for all you comments, i found this most ignorant, offending, and stereotypical. i feel from all my previous posts, there nothing should leave this impression, so i take it as a blanket statement you will put forth towards any chinese people. while the chinese did have this attitude(do the americans have this "center of the world" attitude at present?) two hundreds years ago, which caused them dearly, i do believe we have learned our lesson. i believe you do see many chinese international students in most of prestigious universities around the world learning science, engineering, business, law, and even politics(oh, yes, they are indeed free to go anywhere).

from your accusation of chinese(i guess you mean new immigrants) not feeling the need to learn the local language and assimilate themselves into the local society, i don't know where you get this impression from.

while it is true we have china towns everywhere and people in those towns do speak mostly chinese. but do you know that these people tends to be the ones with poor education or with limited financial means to learn new language skills as they have to get a job(even minimum wage) right away to support themselves after landing in the new country?

do you know that in the early days, chinese new immigrants face the worse kind of racial discrimination comparing to other racial groups, even the blacks(for example in canada, they were the only ones subject to head tax, and in US they were facing Chinese Exclusion Act)? for them to survive, with no english skills(there was no support from the government at that time), most of them end up working and living in chinatowns, where they at least feel home, being somehow respected.

however, this does not hold true to the second generation chinese immigrants. most of them after enduring all the hardships when they were young, they become professionals, and are well respected in the mainstream society. do you know the fact that chinese students achive higher admission rates in US universities than the average? do you know that there is high ratio of chinese scientists and professionals working in silicon valley, and US universities? do you know that the controller, John Chiang, who tells Arnold that california has no money to pay its creditors is a chinese? same as the secretary of energy Steve Chu, and former secretary Elaine Lan Chao, and former governer current secretary of commerce Gary Locke.

the examples are abundant, and i really don't know where your accusation coming from.

You just did.

saying something different from your view point is spreading ideology? oh, to do that i thought i have to kill or start a color revolution. i did not know it could be that effortless.

What risk would that be? You sound like the type of person is payed to AstroTurf boards with the party line. I would say that china needs a cultural revolution, but it didn't really help them last time.

is being ignorant, having no understand of other people's mind and action, and hoping the world circle around you a risk? to me it is.

do i get pay to post here? being a member for 3 months, and only have 46 posts, and probably about 10 of them are about politics, i guess my labor is highly regarded by the commies.

[ThePythonicCow]

Re: China ethnic riots news capture (Warning: Graphic)

Please allow me to apologize, skyson, for some of the less than respectful comments of some of my fellow posters. I welcome your contributions here and read your good posts with pleasure.

It is likely true that the government of more or less every great nation has at times done things which are less than honorable to other peoples and nations. Certainly my country, America, is no exception of late. However we must be very reluctant to extend condemnation of such acts to general condemnation of the peoples of another nation.

[santafe2]

Re: China ethnic riots news capture (Warning: Graphic)

do i get pay to post here? being a member for 3 months, and only have 46 posts, and probably about 10 of them are about politics, i guess my labor is highly regarded by the commies.

Enjoyed your posts here when discussing Chinese people's point of view. It's difficult to make well defined, clear points on line much less attempt to explain broad cultural divides, especially when most others have a very different point of view. I would be interested in seeing you take one of the many points you made here and focus more deeply on that point.
-Typical Westerner...;)

[FRED]

Re: China ethnic riots news capture (Warning: Graphic)

We have only one hard and fast rule here at iTulip: respect your fellow members.

Keep the argument on the topic of ideas not the persons making the argument.

Imagine that the exchange is not anonymous but is face to face.

Carry on.