Safe Deposit Box Theft by States

[FRED]

Wonder what will state governments will do to cover budget shortfalls? How about stealing?

[jk]

Re: Safe Deposit Box Theft by States

what's missing is an account of how this property was determined to be "abandoned" given that the safety deposit box rental had been paid. this was presumably an error by the bank. the state gov't then took advantage of this is an ethically shoddy fashion, but it's a long step from a governmental decision to seize someone's [non-abandoned] property.

[Nervous Drake]

Re: Safe Deposit Box Theft by States

.

[FRED]

Re: Safe Deposit Box Theft by States

what's missing is an account of how this property was determined to be "abandoned" given that the safety deposit box rental had been paid. this was presumably an error by the bank. the state gov't then took advantage of this is an ethically shoddy fashion, but it's a long step from a governmental decision to seize someone's [non-abandoned] property.

You'd expect the standard to be very, very high. Otherwise, why use a safe box? Security is relative. If stories like this get out, hiding cash, bonds, and jewelery in a basement safe becomes competitive. You'd thing the banks want to convince customers that their "safe" boxes are safer than home storage, but this appears not to be the case, at least in some states. Surely other states can use this for competitive advantage. Want to make some money? Create a company that does nothing but offer safe boxes in a state that has the most rigorous protections of personal property and, not coincidentally, the lowest state budget shortfall.

Another great entrepreneurial idea from iTulip.com!

[santafe2]

Re: Safe Deposit Box Theft by States

what's missing is an account of how this property was determined to be "abandoned" given that the safety deposit box rental had been paid. this was presumably an error by the bank. the state gov't then took advantage of this is an ethically shoddy fashion, but it's a long step from a governmental decision to seize someone's [non-abandoned] property.

Personal story: I've never thought of "safe" and "bank" in the same sentence. When I was 5 to 6, there was a program in the schools in LA to teach kids to save. We would bring in a couple of pennies, a nickel, a dime or some such kid amount of money and it would be ceremoniously deposited in the local BofA each week. After a couple of years I had over $20 in the bank earning interest. For me that account was the highlight of first grade.

As with most well meaning programs, it was discontinued or forgotten over the summer and after that, apparently, no one ever thought about that bank account but me. I thought about it all the time and wondered what it must be worth. I was disappointed that I'd not been able to / encouraged to continue investing.

Some time in the mid/late 80s there was a law suit against BofA and then a list of confiscated bank accounts listed in the LA Times and a phone number to call to locate your account if it wasn't listed. I still had my passbook with my signature as a 5 year old kid! I called and they located my account, balance, $5.60. Fees had been extracted for 'managing' the account.

I'd always tended toward investing in things I could experience and live with, but that was illuminating. I told the nice person from the state that they could keep the $5.60 and the general distrust for institutions it cemented has served me very well.

There is a place between trusting the Madoff crowd and sitting on the porch with a 12 gauge. I suppose that's why I've no sympathy for either group in my real life or here on iTulip.

But...if BofA goes BK before this downturn is over, no doubt, I'll smile a little.

[D-Mack]

Re: Safe Deposit Box Theft by States

Has someone more info on tickets & fees etc ?

It looks like high fees have an effect and work.

Police Paying the Price as Motorists Save on Parking Citations

By Rob Kuznia, Noozhawk Staff Writer | Posted on 01/08/2009


It's all about late fees. Fewer residents owe them, adding up to a $350,000 projected revenue shortfall in Santa Barbara.

In the summer of 2007, the Santa Barbara City Council decided to hike the fee for parking citations by $5, to $41, with an eye toward generating revenue for additional police bike patrols to combat gang activity.

Then, over the course of the ongoing fiscal year, a strange thing happened: Revenues from parking citations plummeted.

...

Paradoxically, the number of citations issued by police has been on the rise since 2001, officials say. How can that be? City police and finance officials say it’s all about late fees — and how fewer people are having to pay them.

...

Also at play is deterrence: The higher the fee, the sharper the sting, the wiser the motorist.

Peirson pointed out that the fee for a parking ticket doubles to $82 if it isn’t paid on time.

...

http://www.noozhawk.com/local_news/a...ing_citations/

[tree]

Re: Safe Deposit Box Theft by States

I wish the heck I could figure out where to stash my cash & jewelry.

Current plan: Opening a box when it becomes available at my very conservative, most highly rated, new local bank.

Apt. building is posh, but not secure. Apts have been entered.

I'm good about locking the door but everyone forgets now and then.

[tree]

Re: Safe Deposit Box Theft by States

Has someone more info on tickets & fees etc ?

It looks like high fees have an effect and work.

Police Paying the Price as Motorists Save on Parking Citations

I just got a radar speeding ticket: $50 bucks on Christmas Eve afternoon. I'd been going 36 in a 25 mile zone--11 miles over the limit, exactly, enough to trip a ticket.

I'm slowing down in general. (Raised my auto liability coverage to $1 million this year, BTW.)
By Rob Kuznia, Noozhawk Staff Writer | Posted on 01/08/2009


It's all about late fees. Fewer residents owe them, adding up to a $350,000 projected revenue shortfall in Santa Barbara.

In the summer of 2007, the Santa Barbara City Council decided to hike the fee for parking citations by $5, to $41, with an eye toward generating revenue for additional police bike patrols to combat gang activity.

Then, over the course of the ongoing fiscal year, a strange thing happened: Revenues from parking citations plummeted.

...

Paradoxically, the number of citations issued by police has been on the rise since 2001, officials say. How can that be? City police and finance officials say it’s all about late fees — and how fewer people are having to pay them.

...

Also at play is deterrence: The higher the fee, the sharper the sting, the wiser the motorist.

Peirson pointed out that the fee for a parking ticket doubles to $82 if it isn’t paid on time.

...

http://www.noozhawk.com/local_news/a...ing_citations/

I just got a radar speeding ticket: $50 bucks on Christmas Eve afternoon. I'd been going 36 in a 25 mile zone--11 miles over the limit, exactly, enough to trip a ticket, it seems. My contribution to city coffers!

I'm slowing down in general. (Raised my auto liability coverage to $1 million in 2008, BTW. Rear-end someone, you know they will emerge from vehicle with hand on back of neck.)

[D-Mack]

Re: Safe Deposit Box Theft by States

I just got a radar speeding ticket: $50 bucks on Christmas Eve afternoon. I'd been going 36 in a 25 mile zone--11 miles over the limit, exactly, enough to trip a ticket, it seems. My contribution to city coffers!

I'm slowing down in general. (Raised my auto liability coverage to $1 million in 2008, BTW. Rear-end someone, you know they will emerge from vehicle with hand on back of neck.)

According to the Fed it's not just subjective...

"Red Ink in the Rearview Mirror: Local Fiscal Conditions and the Issuance of Traffic Tickets"
by Thomas A. Garrett, and Gary A. Wagner

Municipalities have revenue motives for enforcing traffic laws in addition to public safety motives because many traffic offenses are punished via fines and the issuing municipality often retains the revenue. Anecdotal evidence supports this revenue motive. We empirically test this revenue motive using panel data on North Carolina counties. We find that significantly more tickets are issued in the year following a decline in revenue, but the issuance of traffic tickets does not decline in years following revenue increases. Our results suggest that tickets are used as a revenue generation tool rather than solely a means to increase public safety.

http://research.stlouisfed.org/wp/more/2006-048/

[cobben]

Re: Safe Deposit Box Theft by States

old news, but serious.
(detailed article, California, but other states are doing it too):

Sunday, May 13, 2007
who's money is it?

http://www.ocregister.com/ocregister...le_1691934.php

" . . .
State government increasingly has put its own financial interest ahead of the interests of citizens it's supposed to protect. In one compromise after another an altruistic service intended to re-unite Californians with assets they have lost has transformed into a money-grab for a state government besieged with budgetary woes.
Current law says that if you have forgotten about a bank account or haven't received dividends or cast proxy votes for stock you own, after three years the state can seize such technically "abandoned" assets, sell them and spend the cash. Seizures even apply to safe deposit boxes. If the contents have no "commercial value," such as personal documents or family heirlooms, they can be destroyed.
. . . "

[cobben]

Re: Safe Deposit Box Theft by States

The "rule of law" in the US is resembling more & more the same in the Russian Federation.
Statement
Of
Nadine Strossen, President
American Civil Liberties Union
On
The Civil Asset Forfeiture Reform Act
Before The
Committee on the Judiciary
Of The
United States House of Representatives
June 11, 1997



http://www.aclu.org/drugpolicy/sente...g19970611.html

" . . .
The ACLU believes that all civil forfeiture schemes inherently violate fundamental constitutional rights, including the right not to be deprived of property without due process of law and the right to be free from punishment that is disproportionate to the offense. While we believe the practice of civil forfeiture should be abandoned, we support meaningful reform efforts which would mitigate its harshness and incorporate equitable provisions and principles of due process. The Act addresses many of our concerns and takes a significant step forward that is long overdue. This bill would reform forfeiture proceedings to provide property owners with some significant procedural protections. It would also make it more difficult for the government to confiscate the property of innocent owners - people who were not aware of, or did not consent to, any illicit activity in connection with their property.
. . .
Abuses in Civil Asset Forfeiture: The Victims

The limited constitutional protections for individuals subjected to civil forfeiture laws coupled with unbridled, permissive law enforcement authority, creates a civil forfeiture system that is ripe for abuse. Particularly appalling is the list of cases documenting the disproportionate victimization of minorities through the use of racially based criteria to unlawfully target and stop African-American and Hispanic travelers. Willie Jones, an African American landscaper, had the misfortune to experience this humiliation.(5) He had $9600 in cash seized from him at the Nashville airport simply because he fit a so called "drug courier profile" - that is, an African American paying for a round-trip airline ticket with cash. He actually planned to use the money to by landscape materials. Unfortunately, Mr. Jones' plight is not that unusual. Several investigative media reports have chronicled and exposed how civil forfeiture is particularly harsh on minorities as a result of the extensive use of racially based profiles to determine law enforcement targets. (6)
Further abuse is found in what is sometimes described as law enforcement extortion. This involves the practice of offering "out of court" cash settlements to otherwise innocent or minimally culpable individuals whose property was seized in exchange for a return of their property. Debra V. Hill's case illustrates this practice in action. She and her family were guests in a house that police raided. During the raid, the police discovered a small amount of methamphetamine in a box of clothing that did not belong to her. The police confiscated the $550 in her possession. She was so desperate for the cash that she agreed to forfeit $250 to the prosecutor in return for the remaining $300. When the charges against her were dropped, she did not receive the balance of her money.(7)
. . ."