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  • Derivatives the new 'ticking bomb'

    Derivatives the new 'ticking bomb' Buffett and Gross warn: $516 trillion bubble is a disaster waiting to happen.

    "We try to be alert to any sort of mega-catastrophe risk, and that posture may make us unduly appreciative about the burgeoning quantities of long-term derivatives contracts and the massive amount of uncollateralized receivables that are growing alongside. In our view, however, derivatives are financial weapons of mass destruction, carrying dangers that, while now latent, are potentially lethal."

    That warning was in Buffett's 2002 letter to Berkshire shareholders. He saw a future that many others chose to ignore. The Iraq war build-up was at a fever-pitch. The imagery of WMDs and a mushroom cloud fresh in his mind.

    Also fresh on Buffett's mind: His acquisition of General Re four years earlier, about the time the Long-Term Capital Management hedge fund almost killed the global monetary system. How? This is crucial: LTCM nearly killed the system with a relatively small $5 billion trading loss. Peanuts compared with the hundreds of billions of dollars of subprime - credit write-offs now making Wall Street's big shots look like amateurs.

    Buffett tried to sell off Gen Re's derivatives group. No buyers. Unwinding it was costly, but led to his warning that derivatives are a "financial weapon of mass destruction." That was 2002.
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    Derivatives bubble explodes five times bigger in five years


    Wall Street didn't listen to Buffett. Derivatives grew into a massive bubble, from about $100 trillion to $516 trillion by 2007. The new derivatives bubble was fueled by five key economic and political trends:
    1. Sarbanes-Oxley increased corporate disclosures and government oversight
    2. Federal Reserve's cheap money policies created the subprime-housing boom
    3. War budgets burdened the U.S. Treasury and future entitlements programs
    4. Trade deficits with China and others destroyed the value of the U.S. dollar
    5. Oil and commodity rich nations demanding equity payments rather than debt
    In short, despite Buffett's clear warnings, a massive new derivatives bubble is driving the domestic and global economies, a bubble that continues growing today parallel with the subprime-credit meltdown triggering a bear-recession.


    Data on the five-fold growth of derivatives to $516 trillion in five years comes from the most recent survey by the Bank of International Settlements, the world's clearinghouse for central banks in Basel, Switzerland. The BIS is like the cashier's window at a racetrack or casino, where you'd place a bet or cash in chips, except on a massive scale: BIS is where the U.S. settles trade imbalances with Saudi Arabia for all that oil we guzzle and gives China IOUs for the tainted drugs and lead-based toys we buy.


    To grasp how significant this five-fold bubble increase is, let's put that $516 trillion in the context of some other domestic and international monetary data:
    • U.S. annual gross domestic product is about $15 trillion
    • U.S. money supply is also about $15 trillion
    • Current proposed U.S. federal budget is $3 trillion
    • U.S. government's maximum legal debt is $9 trillion
    • U.S. mutual fund companies manage about $12 trillion
    • World's GDPs for all nations is approximately $50 trillion
    • Unfunded Social Security and Medicare benefits $50 trillion to $65 trillion
    • Total value of the world's real estate is estimated at about $75 trillion
    • Total value of world's stock and bond markets is more than $100 trillion
    • BIS valuation of world's derivatives back in 2002 was about $100 trillion
    • BIS 2007 valuation of the world's derivatives is now a whopping $516 trillion
    Moreover, the folks at BIS tell me their estimate of $516 trillion only includes "transactions in which a major private dealer (bank) is involved on at least one side of the transaction," but doesn't include private deals between two "non-reporting entities." They did, however, add that their reporting central banks estimate that the coverage of the survey is around 95% on average.
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    However, while that may be true as far as the parties to an individual deal, there are broader risks to the world's economies. Remember back in 1998 when LTCM's little $5 billion loss nearly brought down the world's banking system. That "domino effect" is now repeating many times over, straining the world's monetary, economic and political system as the subprime housing mess metastasizes, taking the U.S. stock market and the world economy down with it.


    This cascading "domino effect" was brilliantly described in "The $300 Trillion Time Bomb: If Buffett can't figure out derivatives, can anybody?"
    "The $300 Trillion Time Bomb: If Buffett can't figure out derivatives, can anybody?"

    In their most benign form, derivatives are probably the greatest financial innovation of the past 25 years. They have helped smooth currency and interest-rate fluctuations by allowing investors to protect themselves. But when it comes to the really big stuff—such as global market collapses — derivatives could turn from vaccine to contagion. Investors use them as a form of insurance, which may give a false sense of security
    As I said here

    Everybody talks of the assets and the valuation of assets -- but nobody points a finger at the degree of leveraging involved -- higher the leverage, more the damage and the pain.

    All the models of leveraged investing that I have seen are micro models -- that are only good in small scale investing -- and nobody has ever assessed the impact of the widespread use of leveraged instruments on the economy - particularly if the payment chains hiccup.
    The only way you can adequately insure a risky position is by taking leveraged positions -- and the assumption that those positions are small enough relative to the size of the market, and that those positions do not materially affect the market. But this assumption has not held good -- the LTCM debacle was evidence enough. Further, too many people adopting the same strategy can lead to disaster -- and everybody uses the same models - with minor variations -- and everybody assumes that they are the only ones. This can lead to a classic positive feedback loops.

  • #2
    Re: Derivatives the new 'ticking bomb'

    I agree with this post. Derivatives scare me and if Buffett can't figure 'em out that's even worse.....

    How does the average guy like me protect against this toxic fallout? Gold (again) are there any investment products out there to bet against the derivatives market for us? ETF's?

    Comment


    • #3
      Defusing 'ticking bomb' w/alternative investments.

      I'm thinking of global bond funds, theory being that U.S. is ground zero for derivatives and since many "world bonds" are not denominated in dollars, they may offer some protection.

      Gold, commodity, and currency ETF's also offer some protection, but these elements seem to be historically more volatile (tho not lately!).

      Any thoughts?

      Comment


      • #4
        Re: Defusing 'ticking bomb' w/alternative investments.

        Originally posted by World Traveler View Post
        I'm thinking of global bond funds, theory being that U.S. is ground zero for derivatives and since many "world bonds" are not denominated in dollars, they may offer some protection.

        Gold, commodity, and currency ETF's also offer some protection, but these elements seem to be historically more volatile (tho not lately!).

        Any thoughts?
        i'd like to hear more. happy with my pms but at these prices am thinking... time to diversify.

        Comment


        • #5
          Re: Derivatives the new 'ticking bomb'

          Originally posted by Rajiv View Post
          Derivatives the new 'ticking bomb' Buffett and Gross warn: $516 trillion bubble is a disaster waiting to happen.



          "The $300 Trillion Time Bomb: If Buffett can't figure out derivatives, can anybody?"



          As I said here



          The only way you can adequately insure a risky position is by taking leveraged positions -- and the assumption that those positions are small enough relative to the size of the market, and that those positions do not materially affect the market. But this assumption has not held good -- the LTCM debacle was evidence enough. Further, too many people adopting the same strategy can lead to disaster -- and everybody uses the same models - with minor variations -- and everybody assumes that they are the only ones. This can lead to a classic positive feedback loops.
          don't get what's so new about this. ej's had martin mayer on here. he said waaaay back in 1999...

          Derivatives markets guarantee a winner for every loser, but they will over time concentrate the losses in vulnerable sectors. Nature obeys Mayer?s Third Law, which holds that risk-shifting instruments will tend to shift risks onto those less able to bear them, because them as got want to keep and hedge while them as ain?t got want to get and speculate. The logic behind margin requirements in stock markets and capital requirements in banking also holds in the derivatives markets. Permitting highly leveraged institutions to hold private parties behind closed doors is the political version of selling volatility: the predictable likely gains will one day be overwhelmed by an equally predictable disastrous loss.


          http://www.brookings.edu/articles/19...ics_mayer.aspx

          Comment


          • #6
            Re: Derivatives the new 'ticking bomb'

            Originally posted by metalman View Post
            don't get what's so new about this. ej's had martin mayer on here. he said waaaay back in 1999...
            Nothing new about it at all -- except that nobody appears to have taken the lessons of the LTCM debacle at all seriously -- once the bailout took place, the party went on as before -- nothing changed -- nothing!

            Comment


            • #7
              Re: Defusing 'ticking bomb' w/alternative investments.

              Originally posted by metalman View Post
              i'd like to hear more. happy with my pms but at these prices am thinking... time to diversify.
              Do you think the US real estate debacle is over? SRS

              Do you think the US financial debacle is over? SKF

              Do you think the US equity markets have seen their lows? Any of the reverse index funds.

              Do you think US treasuries will continue down for another 20 years? Inverse yield funds. RRPIX is one.

              The anwers I suggested assume all your answers are "no," but "knowing" you, who know what your answers will be?

              I think for you to even broach the notion of diversification is a step in the right direction.

              http://www.investmentpostcards.com/2...2008/#more-674

              Originally posted by du Plessis Postcards
              Bill King (The King Report): Special alert – critical week ahead

              “With rumors about Lehman, UBS, Ford, WaMu and others swirling, if global central banks and governments do not act before Europe opens, there could be something historic on Monday. The US Contagion is now directly threatening all countries with a global meltdown.

              “Sunday night is critical. Asia doesn’t matter. But Europe cannot be allowed to tumble.

              “Everyone is talking dollar intervention. But there is no one home at the BoJ due to political hankering over the post. I think that the only way to have a significant intervention is to have the ECB, BoE, Bank of Canada and Australia Reserve Bank cut rates sharply.

              “In fact, I’d have Volcker make the call and say he is running the deal and it will be similar to the Hunt bailout in 1980. After a couple quarters, you can hike rates if you like.

              “There should be other interventionist action and lending facilities proffered. But the global markets need the shock & awe of global coordinated rate cuts of significant magnitude.

              “We must reiterate, the only thing preventing a public panic, because they don’t understand the magnitude of credit market problems, is that the stock market is not crashing. And solons know this.

              “Hopefully this will buy time.”

              Source: Bill King, The King Report, March 14, 2008.
              I have no freaking idea of who King is or what he knows. But if things are as seriously bad as he suggests, then perhaps Monday is a big day. What will the fools in the US do if there were to be some coordinated drop in bank rates over our tonight? That there were ~260 points up in 2-3 minutes on the DJI on Tuesday on the news of TSLF, which will not actually do any business as I understand until the 27th or 28th of March. Imagine if something happens, coordinated rate cuts, in real time? Would the market go up a thousand points in an hour?

              metalman, I am positioned to the short-side using some of the things I mentioned above, but I am nervous, and I in no way feel assured my positioning is correct.
              Jim 69 y/o

              "...Texans...the lowest form of white man there is." Robert Duvall, as Al Sieber, in "Geronimo." (see "Location" for examples.)

              Dedicated to the idea that all people deserve a chance for a healthy productive life. B&M Gates Fdn.

              Good judgement comes from experience; experience comes from bad judgement. Unknown.

              Comment


              • #8
                Re: Derivatives the new 'ticking bomb'

                Jim -

                The correct, conservative version of being short the markets is being in "cash".

                Now figure out what "serious cash" may be in the intermediate and long terms, NOT the short term - if you figure this out, you can position in the true long term cash and quit the weekly day-trading that anxiously seeks safe-havens. Requires a bit of vision.

                It's the difference between looking over the brow of the next hill and looking past your windshield-wipers in the thunderstorm.

                Comment


                • #9
                  Re: Derivatives the new 'ticking bomb'

                  My guess is that "serious cash" may be in :

                  1. gold, commodities, etc. (ownership hard assets)
                  2. stronger, non-U.S. currencies that , if inflated, will inflate less than U.S. (Swiss franc, Singapore dollar, Brazilian reals, etc.)
                  3. Longer term maybe Chinese yuan and Japanese yen
                  4. Longer long-term, stocks and bonds of U.S. infrastructure plays

                  What do you think? Have I got a clue!?!

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Re: Defusing 'ticking bomb' w/alternative investments.

                    Originally posted by Jim Nickerson View Post
                    Do you think the US real estate debacle is over? SRS

                    Do you think the US financial debacle is over? SKF

                    Do you think the US equity markets have seen their lows? Any of the reverse index funds.

                    Do you think US treasuries will continue down for another 20 years? Inverse yield funds. RRPIX is one.

                    The anwers I suggested assume all your answers are "no," but "knowing" you, who know what your answers will be?
                    These questions and your answers in the form of ETFs are helpful and constructive, Jim. Thanks.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Re: Derivatives the new 'ticking bomb'

                      Originally posted by World Traveler View Post
                      My guess is that "serious cash" may be in :

                      1. gold, commodities, etc. (ownership hard assets)
                      2. stronger, non-U.S. currencies that , if inflated, will inflate less than U.S. (Swiss franc, Singapore dollar, Brazilian reals, etc.)
                      3. Longer term maybe Chinese yuan and Japanese yen
                      4. Longer long-term, stocks and bonds of U.S. infrastructure plays

                      What do you think? Have I got a clue!?!
                      Yes, WT, at least from my point of view, you do have a clue. ;)
                      Your four categories are a good summary of the investment options that have attracted attention from iTulip forum participants. Of course (and this may seem like a quibble), from a US-centric perspective, all of these are not cash, although they are all fairly liquid.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Re: Defusing 'ticking bomb' w/alternative investments.

                        Originally posted by Jim Nickerson View Post

                        Do you think US treasuries will continue down for another 20 years? Inverse yield funds. RRPIX is one.
                        Jim, I probably don't understand something here, but isn't RRPIX betting that the treasuries will go down?

                        "The investment seeks daily investment results that correspond to 125% of the inverse of the daily movement of the most recently issued 30-year U.S. Treasury Bond. The fund takes positions in debt instruments and/or financial instruments that should have similar daily return characteristics as 125% of the inverse of the daily return of the Long Bond."
                        raja
                        Boycott Big Banks • Vote Out Incumbents

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Re: Defusing 'ticking bomb' w/alternative investments.

                          Originally posted by raja View Post
                          Jim, I probably don't understand something here, but isn't RRPIX betting that the treasuries will go down?

                          "The investment seeks daily investment results that correspond to 125% of the inverse of the daily movement of the most recently issued 30-year U.S. Treasury Bond. The fund takes positions in debt instruments and/or financial instruments that should have similar daily return characteristics as 125% of the inverse of the daily return of the Long Bond."
                          Oh, shoot, that's why I've not been making any money on that bet! Actually, I haven't been making any money on my 3.5% position in RRPIX, which is a bet that the 30-year bond price will go down and the yield will go up.

                          What you wrote is correct, and RRPIX, Rising Rate, will make money if US long bond rates ever starts a secular trend up. Reckon that will ever happen? I reckon it will, I just obviously have been too soon in placing my bet.
                          Jim 69 y/o

                          "...Texans...the lowest form of white man there is." Robert Duvall, as Al Sieber, in "Geronimo." (see "Location" for examples.)

                          Dedicated to the idea that all people deserve a chance for a healthy productive life. B&M Gates Fdn.

                          Good judgement comes from experience; experience comes from bad judgement. Unknown.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Re: Derivatives the new 'ticking bomb'

                            Originally posted by metalman View Post
                            don't get what's so new about this. ej's had martin mayer on here. he said waaaay back in 1999...
                            Excellent point metalman. And Mayer also said "It's the weak creditor, not the weak borrower, who threatens the system - the inability of the borrower to pay matters systemically only to the extent that the lender cannot afford not to be repaid"

                            Now, what's really happening to precipitate the margin calls and liquidations underway...

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Re: Derivatives the new 'ticking bomb'

                              World Traveler -

                              Sorry for the delayed reply, I stepped out for a half hour to go spend a chunk of my life savings at the stupidmarket on food groceries to last me through next week. Lots of oatmeal and beans (poor man's food) in my shopping list, so I can save a little more paper money to buy yet more ounces of PM's.

                              Answer to your question is in the affirmative. It seems like you've covered pretty much all the main categories. The PM's and one or two of the hardest currencies are the most liquid of the investments you cite. Jack Crooks sounds very positive on the Yen and Swiss Franc.

                              Rising volatility in the precious metals may seem like a paradox for a 'safe' investment category, and that leads many people to conclude this asset class is 'dangerous'. I think though that through this process of volatility, as the PM's gain ever more investor interest (as well as speculation and fear!), there are lots of overwhelming reasons to be found just by looking around, why the PM's are moving back into becoming re-monetized, and that the mess we are heading into will not permit a single 'blowoff spike' after which we'll see the world subside into a nice deflationary couple of decades for commodities like the 1980's and 1990's.

                              How are we going to stage a repeat of 1980's commodities deflation in a world that's been picked over for easy resource deposits, and where we've suddenly got 7 billion people? This commodities cycle has underpinnings totally unlike that of the 1970's, in so many respects.

                              One wants to be parked in the asset class that has staying power as the world changes going forward - in the asset class that will come out the biggest winner. In a time of global monetary disorder, the PM's are in the 'cat-bird seat'. They may seem overpriced, but they will continue to be so, persistently.

                              Fretting about 'overbought' is a boondoggle - the most favored category in any crisis will always appear 'overbought'.

                              Because these forms of 'money' have been cast out and spat on by CB's for decades, as the CB attempts at keeping them ostracized from the global monetary pools fail, they will have some considerable re-valuation still ahead of them. Just my two cents. Maybe this is why people like Richard Russell and Marc Faber seem so 'un-origiinal' when they recommend 'buy gold'.

                              One thinks, "hell, everybody and their uncle is saying that". But to conclude that just because this "sounds unoriginal" it must be a bad idea may be a quite large mistake when the trends of the next decade or two are averaged out. Sometimes the critical, life saving decisions are sitting right in front of you, staring back at you inscrutably.

                              I look back on some mistakes I've made in my own life, and discover years later that fantastic solutions were precisely in that category - sitting right in front of me and staring at me inscrutably.

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