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GOP: the Good, the Bad & the Ugly

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  • GOP: the Good, the Bad & the Ugly

    Business Groups See Loss of Sway Over House G.O.P.

    By ERIC LIPTON, NICHOLAS CONFESSORE and NELSON D. SCHWARTZ

    WASHINGTON — As the government shutdown grinds toward a potential debt default, some of the country’s most influential business executives have come to a conclusion all but unthinkable a few years ago: Their voices are carrying little weight with the House majority that their millions of dollars in campaign contributions helped build and sustain.

    Their frustration has grown so intense in recent days that several trade association officials warned in interviews on Wednesday that they were considering helping wage primary campaigns against Republican lawmakers who had worked to engineer the political standoff in Washington.

    Such an effort would thrust Washington’s traditionally cautious and pragmatic business lobby into open warfare with the Tea Party faction, which has grown in influence since the 2010 election and won a series of skirmishes with the Republican establishment in the last two years.

    “We are looking at ways to counter the rise of an ideological brand of conservatism that, for lack of a better word, is more anti-establishment than it has been in the past,” said David French, the top lobbyist at the National Retail Federation. “We have come to the conclusion that sitting on the sidelines is not good enough.”

    Some warned that a default could spur a shift in the relationship between the corporate world and the Republican Party. Long intertwined by mutual self-interest on deregulation and lower taxes, the business lobby and Republicans are diverging not only over the fiscal crisis, but on other major issues like immigration reform, which was favored by business groups and party leaders but stymied in the House by many of the same lawmakers now leading the debt fight.

    Joe Echevarria, the chief executive of Deloitte, the accounting and consulting firm, said, “I’m a Republican by definition and by registration, but the party seems to have split into two factions.”

    While both parties have extreme elements, he suggested, only in the G.O.P. did the extreme element exercise real power. “The extreme right has 90 seats in the House,” Mr. Echevarria said. “Occupy Wall Street has no seats.”

    Moreover, business leaders and trade groups said, the tools that have served them in the past — campaign contributions, large memberships across the country, a multibillion-dollar lobbying apparatus — do not seem to be working.

    “There clearly are people in the Republican Party at the moment for whom the business community and the interests of the business community — the jobs and members they represent — don’t seem to be their top priority,” said Dan Danner, the head of the National Federation of Independent Businesses, which spearheaded opposition to President Obama’s health care law among small businesses. “They don’t really care what the N.F.I.B. thinks, and don’t care what the Chamber thinks, and probably don’t care what the Business Roundtable thinks.”

    The lawmakers seem to agree. Representative Randy Neugebauer, Republican of Texas and a Tea Party caucus member, said in an interview on Wednesday that if American corporations wanted to send their money elsewhere, that was their choice.

    “We have got to quit worrying about the next election, and start worrying about the country,” said Mr. Neugebauer, who sits on the House Financial Services Committee and is a recipient of significant donations from Wall Street.

    Few of the most conservative House lawmakers draw substantial support from business political action committees, and business lobbyists acknowledged that the mere suggestion they were considering backing primary challenges next year could enhance grass-roots support for the very lawmakers they want to defeat. But the dysfunction in Washington has now turned so extreme, they said, that they had few other options.



    Senator Marco Rubio, left, has been aligned with Senator Ted Cruz in the fight over the government shutdown, trying to regain the conservative support he lost over his views on immigration.





    Gov. Chris Christie of New Jersey is seizing on the moment to distance himself from Republicans in Washington and its problems.



    Senator Rand Paul has been trying to broaden his appeal.


  • #2
    Re: GOP: the Good, the Bad & the Ugly

    Mr. Neugebauer seems to be saying that some of the politicians in Washington D.C. might actually have gone there to get something done as requested by their constituents.

    It would be nice if it worked, but I think they need a whole new crew in both Houses of Congress to pull that one off...and a Presidential veto over-rideable.

    Technically, with enough grass-roots support, and organization, they could pull it off over the internet, and not need much in the way of money, particularly with people beginning to ignore what the media says since they are beginning to be known as bought and paid for propagandists.

    Unfortunately, the minute something like that started to happen, I think TPTB would try to crash the internet, twitter, and all cell phones.

    What I wonder is whether TPTB can actually do that.

    Comment


    • #3
      Re: GOP: the Good, the Bad & the Ugly

      Originally posted by don View Post
      “They don’t really care what the N.F.I.B. thinks, and don’t care what the Chamber thinks, and probably don’t care what the Business Roundtable thinks.”
      "Goddamit! They're not being the fascists we paid them to be. We will not stand for any of this here democracy thingy. Now do what we told you to do!"

      I wonder if any of TPTB stop and listen to themselves

      Comment


      • #4
        Re: GOP: the Good, the Bad & the Ugly

        I call bullsh!t on this story. It just does not ring true in any meaningful sense and I don't believe it for a minute. Consider the source.

        “We have got to quit worrying about the next election, and start worrying about the country,” said Mr. Neugebauer, who sits on the House Financial Services Committee and is a recipient of significant donations from Wall Street.
        Neugebauer? Randy Neugebauer? Randy "baby killer" Neugebauer? Randy "bully" Neugebauer?

        Neugebauer is a Koch sucker and a lapdog for the banks. He represents one of the most retrograde districts in the most retrograde part of the most retrograde state in the Union. He cares so much about the budget that he asks the taxpayer to pay for parties for donors on his yacht. Neugebauer is FIRE bought and FIRE paid.

        Ever spent time in Lubbock? It is ground zero for the worst of the knuckle-dragging right
        . If you self identify Dominionist Christian evangelical hyper-right wing conservative, you'll fit right in. Try and have a conversation with someone and evidence the slightest deviation from orthodoxy and watch what happens. Only be sure to keep the exits in mind because they have a tendency to violence.

        And you know that "neo-Confederate" meme that so many here casually dismiss, well the folks in Lubbock take is quite seriously.
        The terrorist group "Republic of Texas" opened their first "district court" in Lubbock.

        If only they would secede.



        Comment


        • #5
          Re: GOP: the Good, the Bad & the Ugly

          Originally posted by Woodsman View Post


          If only they would secede.



          Hey Woods, just wondering if you were perhaps hired by iTulip to keep the traffic up by continuing to "stimulate" discussion?

          If they did secede -they would be labeled terrorists and the bastion of Truth Freedom and Justice that is the USA government would bomb them back to the stone age (or maybe just cut off the state transfer payments instead as we can't have a repeat of Waco)

          Comment


          • #6
            Re: GOP: the Good, the Bad & the Ugly

            Originally posted by vinoveri View Post
            Hey Woods, just wondering if you were perhaps hired by iTulip to keep the traffic up by continuing to "stimulate" discussion?
            I suppose in Woodsman's defense, I've noticed this site has taken a fairly sharp ideological turn towards some kind of anarcho-capitalist Rothbardianism over the last year. Things used to be more civil, and less highly ideologically charged things were posted. Political polarization sucks. But ideological hardliners proliferate.

            Comment


            • #7
              Re: GOP: the Good, the Bad & the Ugly

              Originally posted by dcarrigg View Post
              I suppose in Woodsman's defense, I've noticed this site has taken a fairly sharp ideological turn towards some kind of anarcho-capitalist Rothbardianism over the last year. Things used to be more civil, and less highly ideologically charged things were posted. Political polarization sucks. But ideological hardliners proliferate.
              jeeeze, dc - and i havent even had much to say lately.... altho whats been happnin over there in lil rhodie has caught my eye, just havent had time to post much - that and been somewhat down, not only on the political crap, but occupationally-speaking as well.

              however, things are starting to look up, seasonally-speaking, so i'm getting more... uhhh... enthusiastic again

              ;)

              Comment


              • #8
                Re: GOP: the Good, the Bad & the Ugly

                http://firstread.nbcnews.com/_news/2...-congress?lite

                Solution: Don't discuss politics or just get rid of the wings of each party.

                Comment


                • #9
                  Re: GOP: the Good, the Bad & the Ugly

                  Originally posted by nbc
                  http://firstread.nbcnews.com/_news/2...-congress?lite
                  NBC/WSJ poll: 60 percent say fire every member of Congress

                  60% (only?) +1

                  Originally posted by vt

                  Solution: Don't discuss politics or just get rid of the wings of each party.
                  or let THEM go without pay til they pass a budget and MAKE IT BALANCE.

                  in the real world - that would be most of the private sector - their 'perfomance' would result in sh_tcanning - but in the make believe world of the beltway, they get re-elected - what, 90% of the time?

                  my (fave) solution?

                  TERM LIMITS, NOW

                  also, ROLL CALL VOTE on every major budgetary item - STARTING WITH THEIR EXEMPTION TO THE 'affordable' care act!!!~

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Re: GOP: the Good, the Bad & the Ugly

                    the jobs and members they represent — don’t seem to be their top priority,” said Dan Danner, the head of the National Federation of Independent Businesses
                    The guys who are laying off Americans by the thousands are worried the GOP candidates are finally starting to pay attention to the workers????

                    If American Businesses had been doing a good job of growing the job base, American voters would not be so angry at them and their lackey Republicans.

                    Mit Romney lost a huge number of votes because Americans are growing tired of American Businesses throwing them out of work.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Re: GOP: the Good, the Bad & the Ugly

                      Originally posted by LorenS View Post
                      The guys who are laying off Americans by the thousands are worried the GOP candidates are finally starting to pay attention to the workers????

                      If American Businesses had been doing a good job of growing the job base
                      , American voters would not be so angry at them and their lackey Republicans.

                      Mit Romney lost a huge number of votes because Americans are growing tired of American Businesses throwing them out of work.
                      +1
                      but methinks the mittster lost because of his comment about 'the 47%' and the tendency of the lamestream/liberal media to focus with laser-like intensity on _every_ word that comes out of _anybody_ BUT their favored candidates, while ignoring anything that doesnt flatter their team's people.

                      this was proven conclusively - to me, anyway - in the runup to 2008.

                      when it was ALL BAD NEWS, ALL THE TIME, esp on econ matters = stock plunge, as the herd, PANICKED by all the 'news' then voted with their wallet, vs their heads - along with the fact, again IMHO, that it was the 'anybody BUT mccain or romney' voters that swung the last 2 rounds.

                      i also think that TBTF,inc _knew_ what was coming by the end of 2007 and purposely drove the markets off the cliff, knowing that would result in the dems (THE party of the banksters/lawyers) taking control of all 3 branches, thus assuring they'd be bailed out to the tune of TRILLIONS - and well - not wanting to let a good crisis go to waste, an all - then put them into position to not only krank up the welfare state, but to ram thru the 'affordable' care act

                      other than that, i'm sure it was all mere co-incidence ...

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Re: GOP: the Good, the Bad & the Ugly

                        Originally posted by lektrode View Post
                        when it was ALL BAD NEWS, ALL THE TIME, esp on econ matters = stock plunge, as the herd, PANICKED by all the 'news' then voted with their wallet, vs their heads - along with the fact, again IMHO, that it was the 'anybody BUT mccain or romney' voters that swung the last 2 rounds.
                        McCain was a terribly flawed candidate for many reasons and his loss at the polls should have surprised no one. Firstly, he's rather old and has a history with cancer. He compounded that cancer concern by selecting Palin as his vice presidential candidate and Palin came across as, ahem, not very smart. After eight years of another president who was not very smart and happened to be at the helm when the economy went off the cliff, it's difficult to blame most Americans for not wanting to risk another term with someone who's not very smart. Secondly and more importantly, McCain was one of the Keating Five. Do we really want to put a person complicit in abetting banking fraud at the helm of a country in the throes of an economic crisis caused by--wait for it--banking fraud?

                        As for Romney, he shot himself in the foot with some of the incredibly stupid things he said to turn away potential supporters. Not that they are a significant enough faction to matter but over 70% of voters of Asian descent voted for Obama. The typical net worth, education level, and income of an Asian voter is high enough that I would have thought that they would be far more interested in voting for a Republican rather than a Democrat. That the Asians largely cast their vote for Obama is a real indictment of how badly Romney alienated people.

                        In the end, Romney lost because he said and did too many things to cause voters to shun him; so much so that he wasn't even unable to oust a failed, seemingly corrupt (or if not corrupt, incredibly incompetent) President Obama.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Re: GOP: the Good, the Bad & the Ugly

                          I don't think Romney did all that badly...and he was up over Obama and climbing when the storms hit the East Coast, and wiped him off of TV with pictures of Obama being presidential. Five days off the news was enough to kill him despite leading Obama at the time.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Re: GOP: the Good, the Bad & the Ugly

                            Originally posted by Forrest View Post
                            I don't think Romney did all that badly...and he was up over Obama and climbing when the storms hit the East Coast, and wiped him off of TV with pictures of Obama being presidential. Five days off the news was enough to kill him despite leading Obama at the time.
                            Whether he lost by one vote or lost by a landslide, Romney lost against a lousy president so that's pretty bad. I still think my comment about the Asian vote is telling. Unless I'm totally out of touch and wrong, Asians in the U.S. tend to be more conservative than average and are not particularly swayed by the social welfare programs that are favored by the traditionally liberal Democrat groups. And yet, over 70% of voting Asians cast their vote for Obama. I was extremely surprised to see those statistics and can only conclude that Romney did a very poor job of convincing voters that he understood the plight of the regular person; that instead he came across as a nabob who was going to drive policies to further widen wealth disparity in this country.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Re: GOP: the Good, the Bad & the Ugly

                              Originally posted by Forrest View Post
                              I don't think Romney did all that badly...and he was up over Obama and climbing when the storms hit the East Coast, and wiped him off of TV with pictures of Obama being presidential. Five days off the news was enough to kill him despite leading Obama at the time.
                              In which battleground states was Romney was "up over Obama" before the hurricane hit New Jersey, that Romney ended up losing?

                              When the hurricane made landfall in New Jersey on Oct. 29, Mr. Obama’s chances of winning re-election were 73 percent in the FiveThirtyEight forecast. Since then, his chances have risen to 86 percent, close to his highs on the year.
                              But, while the storm and the response to it may account for some of Mr. Obama’s gains, it assuredly does not reflect the whole of the story.

                              [..]

                              This is not to dismiss the effects of the hurricane entirely. But the fact that Mr. Obama’s rebound in the polls has been slow and steady, rather than sudden, would lend weight to some of these other ideas, even if they make for less dramatic narratives.


                              http://fivethirtyeight.blogs.nytimes...f-course/?_r=0

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