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Chevy Cruze with a 1.4 turbo engine makes sense, this doesn't!
Mike
Chevy Cruze with a 1.4 turbo engine makes sense, this doesn't!
Mike
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Re: Chevy Volt.....Another LIE!
The problem with hybrids is they cost so much as to make it that a person pays more for a small hatchback than a Ford F-150 or Chevy Silverado.Originally posted by Mega View Post
I went up to a customer of my company on the job, they made a hybrid vehicle for sale to cities and a standard-powered vehicle for sale to the same cities. Everything between the two models was the same except one had a hybrid in addition to the engine plus the cost of batteries. The hybrid vehicle was double the cost and the batteries when replaced would cost $100k on top of that, or 16.7% of the original vehicle sales price.
The only way hybrids really make sense is with high gas prices. -
Re: Chevy Volt.....Another LIE!
That's just the never ending dilemma of high tech. By the time you spend a fortune developing something, it's likely to be obsolete. The Japanese figured this out with cars long ago. Let someone else do the cutting edge research, and then take that and improve upon it.Comment
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Re: Chevy Volt.....Another LIE!
Though they don't spark the public interest like electric hybrids, hydraulic hybrid drive trains show more immediate promise for heavy equipment. The systems are far cheaper and have much higher power density (though lower energy density).
http://www.designnews.com/article/72...s_Required.php
For me, the answer is the old fashioned, single income family living close to dad's work plan. The mileage of our vehicles is nearly irrelevant because we don't need to drive much. I walk or bike to work, we can walk to the grocery store too. It's far cheaper and more environmentally friendly than buying a bunch of super efficient vehicles and driving everywhere.
I have a gas pickup (Nissan Frontier 4x4 crew cab long bed). I really wanted a 3.5l diesel instead of the 4.0l gas engine. I'm not willing to pay a whole lot for a hybrid configuration. In town or in the mountains the hybrid would help, but the diesel is far more of an efficiency boost for the money.Comment
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Re: Chevy Volt.....Another LIE!
If the place you work is surrounded by an inner city ghetto what then?For me, the answer is the old fashioned, single income family living close to dad's work planComment
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Re: Chevy Volt.....Another LIE!
When that was my situation I lived in a nice suburb and took the bus. I chose my apartments based on the bus routes. When I purchased a house off the main bus routes I carpooled to work (in cheap, fuel efficient cars - key word was cheap).Originally posted by Roughneck View Post
What's your plan? Does hybrid technology offer you a lower cost of living? Could riding the bus or carpooling save you more?
For me diesel offers the most immediate advantage (and one I'd pay for), and hydraulics seem to be a better bet for heavy vehicles so I included the link. Electric hybrids and cars need better storage capabilities.
I only mentioned my own situation to show that technology isn't the only solution.Comment
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Re: Chevy Volt.....Another LIE!
I understand. But we don't have bus routes where I live. I do carpool do that makes my full size pickup that gets 17 mpg almost 35 mpg equivalent. I'll take that. If gas gets unreasonable then a small car that gets 30 or so mpg and car pooling would be the ticket. I do like the turbo diesel technology. The problem with the volt is pure economics. It costs 10-15K more than a comparable gas vehicle. If you drive 10K miles a year at 30 mpg thats only 333 galons of gas. At $1700 a year(assuming $5 gallon gas) It takes 9-10 years to break even. That doesn't include the cost of new batteries and that is assuming you do NOT use the gas engine in the volt. Not to mention the stress on the power grid of several million vehicles plugged in.That's a lot of wind turbines:rolleyes: With the supplies of NG we now have that may be a cheaper alternative.Comment
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Re: Chevy Volt.....Another LIE!
Latest industry PR on Volt:
August 12, 2009
G.M. Puts Volt’s Mileage in City in Triple Digits
By BILL VLASIC and NICK BUNKLEY WARREN, Mich. — General Motors said Tuesday that its Chevrolet Volt extended-range electric vehicle, scheduled for release in 2011, would achieve a fuel rating of 230 miles a gallon in city driving.
The rating number, based on methodology drafted by the Environmental Protection Agency, is somewhat abstract, one auto specialist said, given that much of the city driving of electric vehicles will rely solely on the battery charge.
And as eye-popping as the number was, a rival automaker, said last week that its all-electric vehicle, the Leaf, which is scheduled to come out in late 2010, would get 367 m.p.g., using the same E.P.A. standards.
Figures for highway driving and combined city and highway use have not been completed for the Volt, but G.M.’s chief executive, Fritz Henderson, told reporters and analysts at a briefing on Tuesday that the car was expected to get more than 100 miles a gallon in combined city and highway driving.
“Our Chevrolet Volt extended-range electric vehicle will achieve unprecedented fuel economy,” Mr. Henderson said. “I’m confident that we will be in triple digits.”
The Volt can travel up to 40 miles on a single battery charge, at which point a small gasoline engine kicks in and starts to recharge the battery. The battery can be also charged in eight hours using a regular electrical outlet, Mr. Henderson said.
Nearly 8 of 10 Americans commute fewer than 40 miles a day, the company said in a statement, citing Department of Transportation data. The mileage calculation for the Volt assumes that most drivers would stay within that range and not need the gasoline engine.
“Depending upon how you use the Volt, it can get mileage approaching that or much less,” Jack Nerad, executive editorial director of Kelley Blue Book, said. “It almost becomes an abstract number. If you are the Volt target guy who is driving under 40 miles per day, then theoretically your miles per gallon is infinite.”
The three-digit figure, though not a meaningful number to many consumers, represents “a great technical achievement” for G.M., Mr. Nerad said. “They would like to take back the banner of technology leader,” he continued. “This is certainly a shot over the bow of Toyota and Honda and others that they are serious about that.”
The E.P.A., in a statement, said Tuesday that it had not tested the Volt and could not vouch for the accuracy of G.M.’s figure. But, the E.P.A. “does applaud G.M.’s commitment to designing and building the car of the future — an American made car that will save families money, significantly reduce our dependence on foreign oil and create good-paying American jobs," the agency said.
Several rivals, including Chrysler and Ford, are planning plug-ins and electric cars; Toyota is developing a plug-in version of its gas-electric hybrid.
But whether the Volt can live up to its billing has been a matter of debate. Some industry analysts note that General Motors has a poor track record of introducing green technology to the market.
G.M. is trying to persuade consumers to return to its showrooms after filing for bankruptcy on June 1 and emerging as a reorganized company with fewer brands, models and dealers.
Mr. Henderson and other G.M. executives met with groups of consumers on Monday to hear their thoughts on the company’s product lineup.
“We need to communicate what we have,” Mr. Henderson said. “The only way we’re going to make G.M. great again is to win in the market.”
Determining the cost to operate battery-powered vehicles is more complex than for those with only gasoline engines. Electricity costs can vary widely, depending on location and even the time of day when a vehicle is charged.
G.M. said the typical Volt driver would pay $2.75 for electricity to drive 100 miles and that a single overnight charge, for a customer whose utility charges less at off-peak times, could cost as little as 40 cents. Nissan estimated the cost of recharging the Leaf, which has a range of up to 100 miles, at $1 to $3.
G.M. has previously suggested that the Volt would cost about $40,000, but Mr. Henderson said Tuesday that the price had not been set and that the car would price “as it comes to market.” He was also quick to highlight a $7,500 tax credit.
Nissan says the Leaf will be cheaper than the Volt, in the range of $25,000 to $33,000.
Another issue that G.M. and Nissan are struggling to figure out is how to accommodate people who live in an urban area or an apartment without a garage and cannot easily recharge an electric car, yet could benefit the most from one.
“If you’re going to park it on the street, I don’t know what to do actually,” Mr. Henderson said. “I don’t know how to address that situation.”
Larry Dominique, Nissan’s vice president for product planning in the United States, told reporters at an automotive conference last week, "A lot of those people aren’t going to be able to get an electric vehicle initially."
Mr. Henderson said the Volt would be a critical part of G.M.’s product strategy. “Having a car that gets triple-digit fuel economy will be a game changer for us,” he said.
The Volt is expected to be both a so-called halo car to draw consumers to the Chevrolet brand, and a technological foundation for future electric models.
The company has built about 30 Volts so far and is testing them in various conditions.
Interest has been building in the Volt since it was introduced at auto shows in recent years. But with G.M. now 60 percent government-owned, the car has become a symbol of the company’s rebirth after its 40-day trip through bankruptcy.
Mr. Henderson said most of G.M.’s new products would be either passenger cars or fuel-efficient crossover vehicles. While the company will still build trucks and large sport utilities, the bulk of its investments will go toward smaller vehicles.
“I think the fundamental premise of planning for higher fuel prices is the right premise,” he said.
http://www.nytimes.com/2009/08/12/bu...o.html?_r=1&hpComment
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Re: Chevy Volt.....Another LIE!
Plug that GM Volt into an outlet in British Columbia. Your monthly electric bill from BC Hydro would be frameable!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
BC where you can run faster than you can legally drive, and BC where the pot plants grow tall. But come visit us to see for yourself.
http://www.eastsooke.com/Comment
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Re: Chevy Volt.....Another LIE!
Sounds like a good car for short trips in tight cities. But short-term rental services such as Zipcar are still going to more practical for a lot of those potential customers.
This is a solid writeup:
http://www.usnews.com/blogs/flowchar...standards.html
The Volt will have a huge battery pack charged through a power outlet. So a good chunk of its power won’t come from gasoline at all, but from the electrical power grid. Electricity is typically metered out in kilowatts, not gallons. We tend to measure electrical usage over time rather than distance, and we pay for it that way too, with rates based on a kilowatt-hour of electricity, for example. So in terms of energy usage, the Volt will be more like a refrigerator than an automobile. A refrigerator that cruises down the highway. To measure its efficiency, we’d really want to know how many miles per kilowatt it averaged. MPK. Or perhaps it would be kilowatts per mile, KPM.
[..]
But the Volt will only run on electricity until the battery runs low on power. Then a gas engine will kick in. (GM calls the engine an “alternative power source.” Get it? It’s the gas engine that’s the alternative….) GM says that under normal driving conditions, the battery will power the car for about 40 miles until it needs to be recharged. So if you never drive more than 40 miles between charges, your gas mileage will be the same as somebody on a bicycle--which is either 0 or infinity, I’m not sure which. But your MPK (or KPM) rating will be quite measureable—and hopefully better than a refrigerator.
My guess is that GM’s figure of 230 MPG is based on a driving profile that’s dominated by battery power. That’s probably why they only released a figure for city driving. Highway driving, or a combined average of city and highway, implies trips of more than 40 miles, at which point the Volt’s battery would run low on power and you’d start burning gas.
[..]
Then we have to figure out if this will all cost more or less than a car powered by gas. GM is sure it will cost less to operate the Volt than a gas-powered car, and the higher gas prices go, the less the Volt will cost by comparison. But how much less? GM says a 40-mile charge will cost about 40 cents at current electricity rates, which means you’d spend $1.20 to drive 100 miles. In a gas-powered car averaging a healthy 30 MPG, by comparison, you’d spend $10 in gas to go 100 miles, if gas cost $3 per gallon. That’s 8 times more costly than driving on the Volt’s battery power alone, but the real cost to drivers will depend on how much driving is powered by each type of fuel.Comment
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Re: Chevy Volt.....Another LIE!
May I invite you to plug your new GM Volt into an outlet in BC at BC Hydro's new power rates: 14c per kwh.Originally posted by babbittd View Post
Think of the tidal power that didn't quite work the way the pot-heads thought it would work in the Sooke Basin. Think of those windmills and the solar that didn't quite work as promised..... Oh, but the pot grows tall in BC, and the Hell's Angels from Oakland, California are doing fine in Vancouver, thank you. They deliver the pot and do most all of the drive-by shootings in Vancouver.
You won't believe BC until you live there and experience it. Cross-over from Alberta to BC, or from Washington to BC, and the first thing you notice is that the speed limit is sharply reduced. (The fun has just begun.)
Coming into East Sooke from the 17 Mile House, those trees on Gillespe Road that are knocked-down ( just north of Roche Cove ) are from a dispute between a land owner and the greenies at the Capitol Regional District of Victoria. The CRD stopped his subdivision plans because they claimed that there was no water available for homes. (A rainforest and no water!)
Well, in a province where electricity has now doubled in price thanks to the greenies, plug that GM Volt in........ I dare you. And in a few years, electricity will double again. This is not over.
When you arrive in East Sooke, don't look for the town. It doesn't exist. There is no development; the wild animals run the place.
East Sooke is just 100 feet across Wiffen Spit from Sooke, but there is no bridge built there. The Province has never built a bridge across 100 feet of water. To get to downtown Sooke, we have to drive all around the Sooke Basin--- a drive that can take up to an hour.
Come visit East Sooke, BC. You won't believe it until you see it..... Nothing makes sense in BC. Life in BC is an experience.
Central heating in BC? We still don't have it. Our parents put in the pipelines for Alberta natural gas, but our generation never got around to building the laterals to connect the homes in much of BC.....Yes, children, BC is part of North America.
Yes, we chop wood in BC to heat our homes. Next question?
My house used to be a pot farm, but I didn't know that until after I bought the place. The neighbours told me. When I moved in, there were two taranchulas (sp?), or two gigantic BC house spiders, crossing my living-room floor on the first night I lived there. The pot-head owner moved-out, and left me his spiders, apparently as a joke.....The spiders each were the size of my hand.Last edited by Starving Steve; August 11, 2009, 07:15 PM.Comment
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Re: Chevy Volt.....Another LIE!
OMG. Somebody give SS an electric toothbrush for Xmas.Originally posted by Starving Steve View PostPlug that GM Volt into an outlet in British Columbia. Your monthly electric bill from BC Hydro would be frameable!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
BC where you can run faster than you can legally drive, and BC where the pot plants grow tall. But come visit us to see for yourself.
http://www.eastsooke.com/
Although, I would like to know what the electric cost will be.Comment
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Re: Chevy Volt.....Another LIE!
re: cost
I can see it now, in 10 years every night millions commuters arrive home from work at 6PM and plug in their Government Motors electric car and simultaneously a few hundred just built US nuclear plants fire up reactors three, four and five to deal with the Terawatts or even Petawatts of power demand to recharge overnight.
There is going to be allot of plutonium stored and perhaps buried in your backyard if this electric car plan and the Carbon Cap n Trade plan comes through.Comment
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Re: Chevy Volt.....Another LIE!
How many watts are these going to consume when charging? How long to charge?Comment
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Re: Chevy Volt.....Another LIE!
Hi everyone,
I looked at the Camry hybrid and these are my observations/ the sales guy's comments
1) Hybrid camry was $5k+ more than a regular camry, everything else being the same
2) The trunk space was smaller in order to store those giant batteries. The trunk space was no bigger than an old Toyota Corolla
3) The highway mileage is identical between a hybrid and a regular camry
4) Only the city mileage is 9 mpg lower in a hybrid. A hybrid simply switches the engine from using gasoline to battery during traffic stops. The moment you press the accelerator, it switches back to gas giving you identical mpg.
thanks
analog2000Comment
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